Drugs, synesthesia, rambling

I asked Rime to share his thoughts on my marijuana experience, and it turns out I’m not alone.

Well, you came damn near close to an ego death of some sort. [Ed: Wouldn’t surprise me at all. I was there.] Your first experience with marijuana is remarkably similar to mine, in that the average idiot really had no way of understanding that someone could have a “bad time” while high. In fact you weren’t high so much as tripping balls. High anxiety, an inability to verbalize, obvious disconnect from reality in the form of hallucinations and general visual abnormalities… you weren’t having a bad time, you just had no idea what you were in for after taking a hit.

I now view marijuana the same way I view LSD, its not something to be trifled with. It’s not for thals to indulge in, at least not in the same way that cro-mags and saps can. Stay away from it unless you’re with people you are highly familiar with and can trust as you will regularly trip when smoking/vaping much the same as I do. One thing you’ll find is that every strain/dose/intake-method will effect you differently.

Rime
Comment: Perceptual threshold as anime trope

Sounds like something Whackjob would say.

I must have gotten high a hundred times, I can count on one hand the number of times I enjoyed ingesting marijuana. [Ed: WHY] We’re outliers. Our experience is nothing like the norm. Another drug you may want to consider staying away from is molly/ecstasy. I had the exact opposite experience of everyone else, I was less sociable, anxious, thoroughly unhappy, awkward etc. The come down kick-started a depressive/lethargic episode that lasted for months. To date I’m the only person I have met that has had a bad time on X. I believe this is due to abnormally low dopamine/serotonin levels from a combo of negative affectivity and battling depression.

If you want to talk about drugs/synasthesia/pyschedelics in some depth just ask.

Yeah let’s do that, I’ve been obsessing over the synesthesia thing ever since watching that video about Daniel Tammet over at Koanic’s site.

Ref: Associative horizon is in the frontal lobe: ~80% due to white matter abundance and low latent inhibition. I think it is relatively safe to claim that marijuana lowers one’s latent inhibition in the technical sense. Thus, an aspie who has a rather large white matter network but also high latent inhibition (negative affectivity and deep sockets) could have a one in a million reaction when the inhibition drops and the system is overcharged with dopamine.

It is rather curious that synesthesia and overcharged working memory (non-eidetic) tends to show up in these unusually smart and relatively functional savants, e.g. Ainan Cawley, Nikola Tesla, Daniel Tammet, Dylan Jones. It wouldn’t surprise me if Sidis and von Neumann were also in this group. Synesthesia appears to be a direct consequence of extremely developed white matter networks.

In fact, my most abstract (as in “formal”) moments of genius were conceived in the most dreamlike ways: the Behelit myth, the Eternal High School myth, the fundamental Melon psychology series, and so on. By contrast, splitting makes this sort of dreamy intuitionistic reasoning impossible.

As an interesting aside, I wonder if Starchildren are in this rationally intuitionistic dream state all of the time. Like, when they unconsciously perceive someone as “snakelike” the person actually looks like an anthropomorphic snake to them (and maybe they don’t realize nobody else does this). My memory of being around one feels like having been in the dream of someone who knew how to control their dreams. It makes a weird sort of sense, doesn’t it?

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About Aeoli Pera

Maybe do this later?
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20 Responses to Drugs, synesthesia, rambling

  1. Rime says:

    Aeoli, I’d just like you to know that I’ve seen this post and read it. I’m working on a reply that will give you enough info to work with. I have to open up shop tomorrow so I might not finish it all tonight. I’m responding on my experience with marijuana an drugs first and then I’ll touch on my ideas on synesthesia. I have a musical background so I might be able to give another perspective. Look up Scriabin and Rimsky-Korsakov, Rachmoninov was party to a discussion they had on their own respective experiences as synasthetes!

    While I haven’t been typed I believe I’m thal as I’ve got a fairly prominent occipital bun and a football shaped head with some aspergers indicators. I’ll be sure to get typed after my wintercoat falls out. Am wondering if having an intense high from marijuana is a thal thing… not that I personally know thals that toke.

    • Rime says:

      A hint on synesthesia: platonic forms.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      >Aeoli, I’d just like you to know that I’ve seen this post and read it. I’m working on a reply that will give you enough info to work with. I have to open up shop tomorrow so I might not finish it all tonight.

      Take your time if necessary, I’ll get an automatic alert when you comment. Don’t take that as an excuse to go into a perfectionist neurotic spiral though.

      >Look up Scriabin and Rimsky-Korsakov, Rachmoninov was party to a discussion they had on their own respective experiences as synasthetes!

      I can’t believe it, I completely forgot to bring up music! You can’t talk about the temporal lobe without talking about music or autistic musical savants.

      >While I haven’t been typed I believe I’m thal as I’ve got a fairly prominent occipital bun and a football shaped head with some aspergers indicators.

      I would guess so.

  2. Aeoli Pera says:

    >For Melons its a way to control the Cros.

    This absolutely seems to be true, in a historically significant sense, ref: https://aeolipera.wordpress.com/2015/04/16/drugs-and-history/

    It’s also true in the more general sense of omnipresent Skinner boxes.

  3. Rime says:

    To answer your question:

    I continued to smoke pot because I felt I was missing out on an enjoyable social ritual. Everybody I found myself hanging out with in college smoked a fair amount and being a naive fool I took people at their word. I was interested in the psychedelic experience and pot seemed like a good place to start. That if I kept smoking at some point I would “get it” and I’d have built up a tolerance and an ability to function while high. Of course I have been waiting to “get it” with so many things throughout my life that I should have known that I would never “get it”.

    Sometimes I think too much hardware is in the way, too much brain matter to pacify for me to get that mellow/giggly/adventurous/friendly/munchies/etc. high I kept hearing about. I’d occasionally glimpse it; find myself enjoying myself while under the influence but always in a really comfortable setting with people I trusted completely. Looking back at those times I was enjoying spending time with friends. If I had skipped on the toking it wouldn’t have changed a thing. The last time I smoked I realized that the costs had repeatedly outweighed the benefits and that whatever I was going to experience from smoking would always be different from the norm.

    Smoking for me tends to result in something like a low-grade trip or the come up to a low-grade trip. Imagine the intensity of taking half a tab of acid or drinking a bit of mushroom tea. This is only to give you the intensity, the effects are very much what you would expect of marijuana, think of that time you did dabs and how absolutely fucked you got. Retardedly high, right? If you’ve never tripped before: trips are different every single time, highly unpredictable and tend not to make sense until viewed in retrospect. If you plan on tripping know that it might take longer than expected to come down. Make sure you’ve been sleeping and eating regularly. Do it a place of comfort with people you trust. You’ll want a trip sitter who has done it before.

  4. Rime says:

    A quick rundown of my general experience:

    I would smoke or vape until I’d feel it or the utensil was cashed. No matter how little I’d smoke I always ended up feeling like I’d smoked too much. A number of people have told me that this was just fear of letting go talking, that I’d need to smoke more to get over my fear. To which I’d reply that I’d had enough nights of not remembering anything beyond getting high in the first place. Shortly after feeling it the initial buzz might be pleasant. This tended to last between ten and twenty minutes.

    Then the second stage would start, which would come on quicker if I kept smoking through the initial buzz. The longer the high went on or the higher I got, the more it felt like swimming through a fuzzy fog, equal parts self-forgetful and self-aware. I’d rapidly find myself getting paranoid about my relations with those around me, hyper aware of body language, self-conscious of tone of voice, absurdly conscious of music and sounds, awkward with precious little ability to walk, thoughts on social calculations/my own theories/revelations of a dreaming mind racing so fast that they could not be committed to memory. The number of times I’d stumble out of my chair and onto the floor due to excitement… lol.

    This stage could last ten minutes or the entire “high”. I found that my senses were completely overloaded. I tended to be completely useless. Socially, physically, mentally, nothing got done. People tended to find me boring because I could not bring myself to express myself in a manner they found intelligible. This was not enjoyable, although I did occasionally make breakthroughs in my thinking during these paranoid “spasms”. It felt like nervous dreaming. Experience and anecdote indicates that while this is not the general population’s experience with marijuana this is still within the range of “normal”.

    Stage three would come about forty-five minutes to an hour later or if I happened to smoke again during stage two. This point is where it gets weird, stage three happened at least a third of the time if not more. During stage three I would begin experiencing psychedelic synesthesia, hallucinations of every manner, visual artifacts, loss of self, amnesia, and fundamental misremembering of events (order, duration). I’d frequently be paranoid, experience sexual urges that I don’t have, megalomaniac delusions, things that sound disturbing like schizophrenia and mental illness. Aeoli’s marijuana post sounds like something that could have happened to me. When I’d wake up the next day I’d feel pretty crappy, still a little high and generally cranky due to poor sleep.

    Occasionally I’d reach stage four, which I would now consider overdose. There were two such ways this happened, either I’d stay awake following it or I’d pass out. If I stayed awake I’d throw up, feel like I had the flu, lose a lot of the high and slowly come back down to earth. If I passed out I’d go into deep bear-like sleep. A good ten hours later I’d wake up feeling exhausted and unable to remember what exactly happened after I got high. Stage four didn’t happen often, it was always the most unexpected experience. One minute I’d be hitting the blunt and the next minute I’d wake up. Like blacking out except this was immediate.

  5. Rime says:

    Stage three experience:

    The first time this happened was during my first time smoking, a couple months into college. I knew a lot of stoners, hipsters and “cool people” who thought it would be great to corrupt naïve little Rime and watch Planet Earth at 1080p. Go down the hall of my dorm, enter the room we meet in. They set up a vape and kept telling me to pull, there were eight people in the room and I got every third or so pull. By the time we got fifteen minutes into the episode I was blasted.

    I got a nice taste of phase one, nothing of phase two, and a whole lot of phase three. This episode of Planet Earth took place in the verdant jungles of bumfuck, the green forests slowly grew into the peripherals of my vision, I could smell damp heat and undergrowth. The room felt alive with life and movement. I felt like a bird flying between trees as the camera swept through the jungle. Got to get up close and play with a lot of little critters. Monkeys are assholes. Completely forgot that I was in a room with other people. While I could look around and see them they felt less real than the dense canopy.

    At some point the episode moved from the jungle down a waterfall into a cave. The room became a cool, dark cave. I thought nothing of it, at this point the people around me are completely forgotten. By this point (knowing full well the screen is actually ten feet away from me) the screen has completely filled my vision. I am the cameraman, viewing the world through the lens. I can look around the room and the screen follows me subsuming whatever I’m looking at into something that makes sense in the setting of a tropical cave.

    This is the part where it gets bad. The camera decides to look at the cavern floor and focus on insects. I’m immediately surrounded by crawlies; it’s not long before they start crawling all over me. I start twitching and wriggling in the manner of an insect. The more they crawl over me, the more I turn into one of them. Really nasty stuff. When I manage to look away from the screen the rest of the people are covered in masses of insects. Unlike me they’re completely inert, unbothered by the hordes of crawlies. Felt like they were not “awake” to what was actually happening. At some point the episode ends and they help me get to my room. Still twitching, still seeing bugs. Get in bed and fall asleep after who knows how long.

    Awaken the next day bug-free with a headache and some lethargy. Ask them what happened; worried as fuck that I made a huge scene. They laugh and say I must have been tired, because my eyes were mostly closed the whole time and that aside from the occasional twitch or groan I’d been mostly comatose. I laugh and say thanks for the experience. Around the same time next year I’m smoking about once a week in social situations.

    Now, since then I’ve rewatched Planet Earth. The jungle episode and the cave episode are separate, episode 8 and 10 respectively. Somehow I missed this. Might have been confused due to many of the caves being surrounded by jungles, but in other marijuana trips I’ve found that I’ll have similarly edited memories. Also, the insects on the cave floor are less than five minutes of the whole cave episode run time.

    Most of what I remember has very little basis in reality. My mind will either make up things that don’t happen or it will focus on one short blip and expound exponentially. Things tend to make sense within the logic of the experience and I never forget I’m high. Yet I can’t shake the reality of the experience as its happening. If you want more of these anecdotes I’ll give you the ones that I remember best/provide what “typically” happened.

  6. Rime says:

    Synesthesia
    It seems to me, based on my own experiences, and what anecdotes I have gathered from synesthetes, is that synesthesia is a glimpse at the platonic forms. Daniel Tammet’s description of numbers, “You see just the numeral, I see the shape, color, and personality” sounds about right. Being imperfect humans, will disagree on the specifics and the specifics they see may be liable to change over time, just as the brain structure changes over time.

    http://www.livescience.com/1141-insight-people-taste-words.html
    Notice that such people associate similar tastes to many of the same words though the specifics might vary.

    http://biteyourownelbow.com/keychar.htm
    Notice that the composers associate similar emotions and colors to keys. Of course, we have to correct the fact that some composers used equal temperament and that later composers wrote pieces for scales that are pitched higher than earlier composers.


    Jake Barnett and Daniel Tammet share the ability to see numbers, particularly bigger numbers, as shapes and colors. Neither of them has forgotten a number… nuts.

    Not sure how to convince people that synesthetes are actually perceiving what they say they are. That those perceptions would be part of the platonic forms “slots” for me, it meshes well with people being fallen/imperfect and so people with synesthesia might disagree on specifics, but it still explains why they agree on the broader picture. Pointing out a chair is easy, defining what makes a chair is hard and it would get harder to define the color of the form of “chair” if less minds are partaking in the defining process. Hell, we already defined the sound of the form of “chair” so we’ve already got a shortcut for whenever we need to talk about this particular form. And we do shortcuts with everything! Especially music! As long as you’re able to repeat the sound from memory, from hearing, or from sheet music nobody cares about the color, shape, texture… the average person doesn’t even care about the specific emotions, experiencing music in a communal setting releases dopamine regardless of content.

    Wagner explains synesthesia best,
    “After a night spent in fever and sleeplessness, I forced myself to take a long tramp the next day through the hilly country, which was covered with pine woods. It all looked dreary and desolate, and I could not think what I should do there. Returning in the afternoon, I stretched myself, dead tired, on a hard couch, awaiting the long-desired hour of sleep. It did not come; but I fell into a kind of somnolent state, in which I suddenly felt as though I were sinking in swiftly flowing water. The rushing sound formed itself in my brain into a musical sound, the chord of E flat; major, which continually re-echoed in broken forms; these broken chords seemed to be melodic passages of increasing motion, yet the pure triad of E flat; major never changed, but seemed by its continuance to impart infinite significance to the element in which I was sinking. I awoke in sudden terror from my doze, feeling as though the waves were rushing high above my head. I at once recognised that the orchestral overture to the Rheingold, which must long have lain latent within me, though it had been unable to find definite form, had at last been revealed to me.” (Wagner, Mein Leben.)

  7. Rime says:

    Test comment

  8. Yeah It's me says:

    You guys should def stay away from LSD, you will have a soul death.

    Pot…All people, animals ect have cannabidinol and THC receptors in our neural network, our bodies actually produce cannabidinol to reduce stress, and relax muscles.

    The accepted theory is when sponges ruled the seas billions of years ago, an advantageous mutation occurred in a swamp like area in what’s now know as Turkmenistan, where cannabis evolved, apparently the Cannabidinol and THC was leeching into the water ways, then interacted with the sponges. So every animal on Earth has those special savage cabbage whacky weed receptors, through out the neural network. Same with Nicotine, which I find interesting.

    Not all weed is the same, it depends on time of harvest, strain, to a degree even the way it’s grown. It all comes down to different ratios of cannabidinol to THC. Plus the other aromatic biomolecules, or terpenenes have other herbalist qualities.

    Another note, THC is activated to it’s most potent form once it’s heat treated, ergo smoking, vapping, making butter and oil on the stove. So you can produce medicine that has less of a THC buzz by extracting it with oil and NOT heat treating it.

    I’ll leave out the aromatics, interesting, hundreds of different biomolecules to go through.

    The Basics.

    THC :- Psychotropic , slight to mild hallucinogen gives your brain the buzz and high, or the dopamine surge.

    Cannabidinol :- Anti-Psychotic, muscle relaxant, and sedative. Interestingly Cannabis closest cousin is Hops, yep the stuff in bitter beer, it’s why bitter beer makes you sleepy, it’s full of cannabidinol.

    If you haven’t guessed already, yep I’m a herbalist, though I use holistic and allopathic methods, I use the best of both medical worlds. I’ve experience in the Medic world and self trained herbalist.

    So if you guys experiment with this stuff ever again I suggest you go for a strain with 50:50 cannabidinol to THC ratio, so that way you balance the Psychotropic with the anti-psychotic. Plus you should source medicinally organically grown stuff as it’s not treated with plant hormones, the illegal stuff usually is being it’s grown for maximum profit.

    One side affect dreamers will not like, probably why Rime has memory loss, pot stops you from dreaming when you sleep, good for war vets with PTSD, not so much for Thal dreamers.

    I could write more on this if you’re all interested. Not just on weed.

    • Rime says:

      Staying awake after smoking was a half-remembered dream. Sleeping after smoking was death.

      I’ve smoked marijuana containing high concentrations of cannabidinol. Those were some of the most pleasant highs I have experienced. Felt relaxed and comfortable. Also helped that I smoked those strains with close friends from out of state. It was medical grade Michigander marijuana. Maybe Chicago pot is just bad?

      I have had nothing but great experiences with LSD. A wonderful drug, but not a wonder drug. Don’t expect it to fix your life. That’s all on you buddy. Best of luck. ;-)
      Advice for thals: One should be aware that forming relationships and friendships during a trip can be hazardous. Cros will let you down, don’t set your hopes too high.

    • Rime says:

      Please keep sharing, you have a lucid style. Much better than trying to learn about this through a person than through erowid.

      • Yeah it's me says:

        Thanks, i will, when I get home and don’t have to use tiny touch scream, with my thal pokers…

        LSD was the best. Laughed so much and enjoyed all my awake dreams… Remember them perfectly.

        I know people who had taken 300 plus in 12months they were never the same. Me I could count them on two hands over a 3 year period…

  9. podrag says:

    I think smoking dodgy marijuana really increased my creativity. For big melons life is laid out for us in a lot of ways, so I think this is why melons are able to do a bunch of dumb shit and still stay ‘on the rails’. For us it’s almost a game: ‘how much crazy dumb shit can we do and still function?’. It becomes a game of chicken with life. I was smoking shit that put me into convulsions. I was drinking a clubbing a lot. I also caught Lyme disease which has very strange psychological aspects, it’s trip in and of itself… as well as workplace stress… and the whole messy thing converging into a massive creative epiphany which came to fruition and is in process.

    One thing I learned is that panic is the most delicious thing that we can experience. Pure confusion is also a wonderful experience. It’s the most real experience possible, more so than extreme exercise even. Fear cleanses, rationalises… it is the basic ground… it removes the desire to indulge… it makes us precisely one with the moment… immediately. Here. NOW. What we think is a bad trip might actually just be our minds recognising a constipation: engaging our basic Mercurial flows: the basis of universal tensegrity, the basis of nature itself.

    Fear seems demonic, but that’s just relative to a basic bitch worldview. We act in spacetime to achieve structure within it, not in order to do what the televitz says. Societal conditioning is hard to overcome.

    As for Starchildren, I’m working with a ScM at the moment. We each view each other as silly sausages. Dual backs vs Starchildren is a really interesting chat. We’re both thankful for the insightfulness but frustrated by the delivery and intention. It’s like two different equally matched species becoming friends. They should make cutsie Youtube videos of us.

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