The simplified cult theory of edenism (with apologias)

Continuing a discussion in the comments. We needed a name for this idea anyway, so here it is.

Simplified cult edenism:

Smart person who agrees = thal
Smart person who disagrees = melon
Dumb person who disagrees = cro magnon

Here’s my counter-conspiracy theory:

The reason I brought up Edenism is that many of its believers seem to be driven to a large extent by extraverted factors (namely, a desire to belong).

So, recipe for Edenism:
•Find target audience of unhappy people
•Pander
•Strengthen ingroup/outgroup boundaries, develop and enforce social rules to guide herd

Magnus Richards
Comment on: Disambiguating norms for behavior

I agree that external motivations are important, except that I argue that many of its believers do belong. That is the important distinction because it is what the theory predicts, whereas not-belonging would force a contradiction. Roughly speaking, there is equally strong anecdotal evidence in favor of both interpretations.

In favor: We (speaking primarily of the neanderthal-leaning members) have common psychological traits for certain: namely unusually high IQs, red pill ideology, and many of the symptoms of Asperger’s syndrome (most importantly introversion and openness to experience). This would be enough for a sense of community to develop, particularly if it is encouraged explicitly.

There are notable exceptions from the typical Asperger’s suite of traits: we tend to be tall, athletic, and have good eyesight (no corrective eyewear). I attribute these exceptions to the cultural focus on Asperger’s in Jews, which raises genetic confounds from race mixing (Semitic with white) and inbreeding. The same myopia and clumsiness can be observed in those few blacks who can be found with Asperger’s (exclusively in the American middle class, in my experience).

Against: The community is fractious and the sense of belonging waxes and wanes.

The fractiousness can be explained within the theory: we are, on the average, not a socially well-adjusted bunch. Maladjustment causes loneliness and loneliness causes maladjustment. Some are better than others. On top of that, we are introverts and therefore disinclined to form large groups or coalitions—it’s the basic European problem where we’re more likely to clash with neighbors, and only an overwhelming external threat can convince us otherwise.

I believe the sense of belonging problem has two primary causes: 1) Despite our similarities, there are also many differences (low social coherence, in your terms), and 2) there is only so much genuine community you can experience through text.

1) I get along very well with Koanic because, as I’ve noted in the forum, we have an extraordinary number of things in common: evangelical Christian upbringing in mid-America, plus strong Asperger’s, plus *still* Christian (that is, not the slutty Churchians who give it up easy in college), plus edenism and red pill and Vox Day, plus psychology obsession, etc. Most of the other forum members are not Christians, many are not Americans, etc.

2) There is only so much community you can get through text on a computer screen. It is definitely a rush to discover people you can communicate with and have interesting conversations with. But really, the human desire for community comes from the need to breed, to work together in building a strong tribe, and to have a social safety net. Mental stimulation and encouragement only go so far when you can’t find a job because you don’t have any normie friends.

So once again, I’ll wrap up by saying that it boils down to whether the theory is true or not. If the theory is true, then it explains the cult-like properties. If it’s not true, then the cult-like properties are most easily explained by cult-like causes. It’s like Christianity that way: either it’s true or it’s a cult that got out of hand.

I’ll discuss the theories and science in sweeping terms in a couple more posts (unless I get distracted, fingers crossed).

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57 Responses to The simplified cult theory of edenism (with apologias)

  1. Jdc says:

    Apparently Japan has 5x the amount of autism/aspergers than the UK. They have some serious Thal DNA over there.

    Japanese girls actually compliment Thal guys really well. I’ve met a few online and 1 in real life and have enjoyed it immensely. Some guys like Korean girls too but mileage may vary. Particularly if you’re not into epicanthoplasty. Japanese girls are objectively more beautiful in my opinion.

    Another weird resource I found online is this site: http://www.sumerianalien.com/

    • Jdc says:

      Interesting that Dragos Kalajic included the Japanese amongst the Hyperborean people.

      https://lumineboreali.net/threads/dragos-kalajic-hyperborean-hyper-realism.888/

      Maybe Plato was right and we really do come from the stars and will return there.

    • Rime says:

      We know thals abound in Japan because every hero of anime/manga just happens to be autistic. And while he might not get laid, everybody knows how awesome he is and appreciates his awesomeness (when hero is a beta thal).

      Fuck yeah just started watching Gurren Lagenn. It’s like Eva for people without mental illnesses.

      Inspite of all this, whites still have the most thal potential, because Europe is closest to thal homeland in all the ways that matters.

      • Jdc says:

        I agree in some aspects, it’s possible that Northern European women such as Finnish people are also super Thal and introverted. However they’re also pozzed by feminism and when I look at my mother and sister’s behavior I wouldn’t want to have dated them.

        I was recommended to date them by a Swedish guy and yeah from my experiences I wouldn’t go back to any other type of woman.

      • Aeoli Pera says:

        >Fuck yeah just started watching Gurren Lagenn. It’s like Eva for people without mental illnesses.

        I wouldn’t recommend Eva to anyone who isn’t interested in psychology.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      >Apparently Japan has 5x the amount of autism/aspergers than the UK. They have some serious Thal DNA over there.

      Makes sense. The UK is swarthy now anyway, compare to Italy.

      >Japanese girls are objectively more beautiful in my opinion.

      I seem to remember a study somewhere in the PUAsphere that ranked them at the top for all Asian groups.

      >Another weird resource I found online is this site: http://www.sumerianalien.com/

      There’s nothing quite like a good encyclopedia :-D.

      • Jdc says:

        I spent a good part of my 20’s being treated horribly by a Korean and White girls, have no interest really in Chinese or Russian so Japanese it is. Trust me, they’re worth it.

  2. Mycroft Jones says:

    On the one hand, I really want to see your next couple posts on this topic. On the other hand, SSSHHHH, YOU’RE SPOILING THE FUN. Also, I think Koanic is a really swell guy.

    • Mycroft Jones says:

      Ohwait, I read the second half of your post, and you walked it back nicely. Fun not spoiled. You are touching on topics that are core to my soul; finding a mate and finding a job are two of the key elements of a good community.

      • Aeoli Pera says:

        >Ohwait, I read the second half of your post, and you walked it back nicely.

        I’m not doing rhetoric in this post, this is an attempt to represent a large amount of context as truthfully and concisely as possible. It turned out pretty disorganized, but that’s what happens with this stuff sometimes.

        • Magnus Richards says:

          >I’m not doing rhetoric in this post, this is an attempt to represent a large amount of context as truthfully and concisely as possible.

          Thanks; I think the post accomplished its goal well.

          >So once again, I’ll wrap up by saying that it boils down to whether the theory is true or not. If the theory is true, then it explains the cult-like properties. If it’s not true, then the cult-like properties are most easily explained by cult-like causes. It’s like Christianity that way: either it’s true or it’s a cult that got out of hand.

          This was my favorite idea. It also echoes one of your earlier posts: “It all depends on which side you’re on.”

          So, there is moral relativism with respect to a topic until and only until the relevant starting-assumptions are fixed. (Compare this to total moral relativism, in which nothing is said at all, a.k.a. buddhaworld, and total absolutism, in which every decidable statement is assigned a fixed true/false value, a.k.a. Godworld.)

          So

          speech : silence
          absolutism : relativism

          And the difference between opposing/alternative viewpoints is axiomatic, where the axioms one chooses are based on personal experience. (Assuming logical skills and all that)

          • Aeoli Pera says:

            Well, I’m an absolutist in exactly the sense you’re describing. But 1) our knowledge can be limited, wrong, or misleading, giving rise to probability, and 2) it’s impossible to perfectly represent the truth in words, particularly if we’re being concise- much of what passes between us is therefore implied or possibly lost.

            I’m not going full retard and saying that knowledge or communication are impossible, quite the opposite, but I’m saying it’s a treacherous business at the fringes.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      >Also, I think Koanic is a really swell guy.

      Koanic would disagree. Better than average? Eh, it’s not relative anyway, it’s all about which side you’re on.

      • Jdc says:

        I like Koanic though I find his mode of cognition a bit psychologically remote for me. Analogous to a leader or something that one admires from afar but doesn’t commune with on a personal level. Though his contributions to Edenism are pretty much unparalleled.

        I probably identify more with you, Heaviside a little bit and Edenist Whackjob.

  3. Mycroft Jones says:

    Odd, altrugenics is down right now. Wonder what is up.

  4. podrag says:

    If I were to start a cult Edenism would form an element of it. Probably with some esoteric ancient religion, martial arts, computer hacking and manual labour. And marching around in lines, obviously.

  5. Mr. T. says:

    First: get yourself fully demonised. Probably helps a lot if you want to be a successful cult leader.

    “Whatever the case, fully possessed humans become sharp instruments of demonic manipulation and can carry a composed exterior and high social status, but underneath be dark, manipulative, cunning predators endowed with paranormal powers. Those who are not fully possessed and are struggling against the attachment process are worn down through depression, suicidal tendencies, and self-destructive psychopathic behavior. Extreme sadism and perversion are also possible, as in the case of serial killers and murderers who typically admit a voice told them to do it, or that they couldn’t help themselves, that something evil compelled them.

    Clairvoyants, young children, animals, and anyone with an iota of intuition can sense the presence of demonically possessed individuals and will feel threatened, repulsed, and creeped out by them.

    Demonic attachments can be picked up in several ways. One is through willful invitation, say through practice of black magick, left-hand-path occult systems, or undergoing initiations into questionable secret societies. These all give a person increased power and knowledge in exchange for soul energy and debt to the demonic beings conferring those, which in the long run is a bad deal. But just as people get themselves into a hole through credit cards, some do likewise spiritually through the “credit card” of black magick. ”

    http://montalk.net/notes/dislodging-negative-entity-attachments

    • Mycroft Jones says:

      Good analogy. Black magick is like a credit card, you just burn through your life force quicker, and the dark spirits take a cut also. Whereas the gifts of God are free, and He never demands them back. No strings attached, no interest down, no interest ever.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      “The Forces of Light are performing surgery on our planet… that means a delicate operation that works through us rather than upon us. It appears to involve incarnating into human bodies and turning over the system from the inside while the other half of the team stays in the higher realms and makes sure those below get a fair shot at doing their jobs. ”

      Yeah this dude’s a Luciferian.

      • Mr. T. says:

        I’m not sure about the rest of the site (some interesting ideas, however; not exactly Christian, not necessarily all true), but that quote seems true.

  6. Koanic says:

    If this were a cult I would not honestly classify myself as half melon.

    Let us ever be more honest than our detractors. Sola veritas.

    • Rime says:

      How valuable is a buzz cut to phrenology? I like my Hitler Jugend cut, but I could go full on Kriegsmarine if necessary.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      Agreed on all counts. If anything, you’re sabotaging the cultural impact by sperging out on increased granularity.

    • Magnus Richards says:

      Koanic, I’m not so sure about that. To play devil’s advocate here (figuratively), suppose you are running a cult. An advantage of honestly classifying yourself as half melon is that you can say

      “If this were a cult I would not honestly classify myself as half melon.”

      Also, increased granularity is important and attractive to audiences with Aspergers, so that actually adds to the cultural impact for the target audience.

      Ok, I’ll stop playing devil’s advocate now.
      Aeoli has good points. I was harsh on Edenism in my initial posts but I take some of it back (specifically, the cultishness is not a real problem). Special communities meet a demand for special communities, and cultish things seem that way only if one doesn’t really believe the premises.

      Revising my slightly earlier model which I posted in response to Aeoli,

      relativity=axiomatic differences (which may include silence i.e. absence of axioms)

      To openly accept relativity with respect to a topic during discussion means that one no longer has a position to argue, and this is caused either by increased understanding, laziness, or logical defeat/arrogance, so I guess I’m in at least one of those three boats now. (Maybe one limb in each of them, and two in the first boat.)

      • Aeoli Pera says:

        Again, I am a hard absolutist (to the extent that I dismiss QM weirdness), with the caveats that human understanding is deeply flawed and perfect communication is impossible.

  7. Rime says:

    Dumb person who agrees = German
    How else can you explain me?

    Perhaps the best way we can engender a community is through meetups. Who else Chicago? I will provide the initial two rounds of beer.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      If I can save up enough for a car, I’ll be there. Chicago’s a shithole where it’s not gentrified and egregiously expensive, can I/we taxi you somewhere nearby?

      • Rime says:

        ???

        When I say Chicago, I mean anythjng within a five hour drive from the Loop. Nothing else outside of that is worth mentioning to the wider world. Huge parts or Chicago are nice, we’re pretty good at keeping our kneeegrohz in check. Trust me, not that expensive if u crash on my couch and drink my beer.

  8. lflick says:

    Why are we overloading “cult” when we already have the perfectly good English word “circlejerk”?

  9. Pingback: Why narcissism leads to globalism | Aeoli Pera

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