A coupla thoughts on master/slave dynamics

Here are some things I posted previously on the forum, which I’ll add to.

The “boot on your neck” strategy reliably LOWERS performance in Thals.

I can now confirm that this is true for jobs as simple as taking things out of boxes and putting them on shelves. Applying social stress to thals (responsibilities, deadlines, goals, etc.) appears to increase the cognitive load with zero benefits, resulting in less production and a higher rate of mistakes. Apparently, we are not built for micromanagement and cognitive-behavioral social control. It seems that the highest rate of TT production occurs when the variable to be maximized is well-communicated (e.g. profit) and the “possibility space” is widest (e.g. “You can cook, clean, fix, organize, experiment, engineer, document, I don’t care as long as customers are happy.”). That is, if prosocial then allow counterfactual simulation to occur.

On the subject of IT management,

It comes down to the difference between trusting employees and letting them get things done, versus treating them like burger flippers that need to be monitored and controlled every minute, lest they wander off and sabotage everything.

Slaves are monitored constantly because they understand at a fundamental level that working hard is against their personal interest, tantamount to suicide. The worst case is to be worked harder, burn out and/or get injured, and get thrown on the trash pile and replaced. The best case is to conserve energy and steal food when possible. Free men, on the other hand, enjoy seeking profit, prestige, etc. In such a case, the “manager” is also a free man who merely serves another specialized function: to communicate and expedite. The problems occur when mindset fails to match the situation (slaves cannot be programmers because creativity requires personal space). It’s really very simple if you get down to it.

Taking this perspective, I have a couple of notes on sapiens heuristics. The first is inspired by this bit from Kipling, H/T Heaviside:

Then Mahbub Ali lowered his eyes
In the fashion of one who is weaving lies.

I don’t have to explain to aspies why this heuristic is useless, but normies will never let it go because it’s deeply wired. Then it behooves us to wonder where it comes from. Within the context of the dynamic above, it’s possible to simply ascribe this behavior to Alpha-Beta social interaction. Alphas gaslight Betas all the time (“serve my interests and you’ll be happy”), but they’re usually not called out for it because insubordination is always swiftly punished, whereas Beta-style lying tends to be more slippery (“nothing to see here sir, your happiness is my only concern in life”).

As an aside, I don’t have the typical aspie aversion to eye contact, but I also don’t have any dad issues because 1) I genuinely like the guy, and 2) his attempts to modify my social behavior (including his complaints about this) have always been so weak that they’re barely noticeable. Therefore I make eye contact for greeting and to emphasize key points when I’m talking, and look away while I’m thinking, which is pretty normal for Americans. My dad still complains because he’s strongly F-dominant in MBTI terms, and these types almost never break eye contact because all of their communication is emotional transfer. So the signal a listener gets when you look away is “I’m performing a mental calculation”, so in a master-slave interaction this is always suspect. “Why did you have to think about that? If you were really loyal (cucked) you’d be straightforward and relaxed about it!” /aside

Going a bit further back, I think the social aspects of allowable eye contact come from the existence of microexpressions-as-information, and the enforcement of asymmetrical information transfer. The master may look at the slave’s eyes in order to read their emotions (an extremely salient sort of information in a low-trust society), but the slave may not look at the master’s eyes for the same reason, enforcing their ignorance and therefore their impotence via uncertainty. It’s the same logic as starving the peasants of protein: protein makes muscles, and recent social science tells us muscles makes a person confident, assertive, and self-interested.

On a somewhat different note, I’ve been wondering lately about where common sense ideas come from. This was inspired by my boss getting upset when I eat while I’m working. It won’t make any sense to those of you with office jobs (where working through lunch is apparently considered “dedicated”), but this is an extremely common idea in blue-collar serfdom, to the extent that even customers will help to enforce this proscription. If we actually had any customers at night, they would be upset to see me take a bite from an apple while putting boxes on shelves. Why? They might spin a few rationalizations, but what it comes down to is that this “seems sloppy”, i.e. it appears as if management has lost control of its employees. I think this goes back to the Ur-idea of well-managed slaves in the fields, where they must be constantly monitored so they don’t eat the stuff they’re harvesting. The association therefore is that taking liberties indicates laziness and bad management, and any nonconformity with the assumptions of Ur-organization is a crack in the edifice.


About Aeoli Pera

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17 Responses to A coupla thoughts on master/slave dynamics

  1. Lazer says:

    “In such a case, the “manager” is also a free man who merely serves another specialized function: to communicate and expedite.”

    Thals and MTs don’t have managers. They get managed because they are expected to always be executing. Saps has a microwave mentality. Thals and MTs (Aspies) are best left to their own devices. Gamma managers screw every thing up for them.

    • Jdc says:

      I think this is why Thal’s don’t keep jobs for long. The manager cannot conceive of an employee that is actually trustworthy enough to leave alone to work without supervision and the Thal is a nervous wreck that someone is looking over their shoulder or monitoring them all the time in a Kafkaesque way. Particularly in regards to performance reviews and other metrics that are so called standards in the corporate world.

      • They can’t deal with the idea of having an underling who learns the business faster than they did. They also have an amazingly level of difficulty in actually making a long-term deal with the Thals, such as arranging a transfer and having an ally somewhere else.

  2. Edenist whackjob says:

    Get a desk (coding) job, man…. at least you’ll have new gripe fodder then :)

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      Lord knows I don’t do it for the benefits.

    • Lazer says:

      What languages do you suggest learning? I already do Network security and spam filtering, but need to learn to write rather than just read a programming language.

      • In short: Javascript gives a lot of bang for the buck in the current job market. If you can do web dev using the latest frameworks (Angular or React), you have a good base. This will also allow you to do hybrid mobile apps. (And backend, via NodeJs). You should also know a fair bit about Linux.

        So in short: learn HTML, CSS, Javascript, Jquery and one of the big frameworks (Angular or React). Know a fair bit about Linux.

        After that, you can add:

        -Backend languages (C#, PHP, Java, Python)
        -Native mobile (Java, Swift)
        -Databases – SQL, MongoDB, maybe something else

        Stay away from anything else. No need to learn C++ as a beginner, for instance.

        Note: this is all based on the Scandinavian job market.

        • Jdc says:

          Java for enterprise or mobile(If he wants to become a mobile developer but best to be doing that exclusively) or else probably python for backend which is what I do. No need to learn c# as then you’re stuck in the MS tech stack or like you said C++, Golang or Rust as compiled languages are usually specialised. In saying that there’s always work out there for specialists though the jobs are less frequent than generic web developers.

      • Jdc says:

        Either install Linux or buy a Macbook.

        Set up python 3 with virtualenvs(a lot of tutorials for your operating system).

        Then run through some tutorials such as this:


        Python is hugely popular and can be used for various things such as statistical analysis, geolocation information, web development and system scripting so it’s not going out of style anytime soon.

        Or you could set up node.js and learn this:


        I would suggest the react tutorial. Learning node and the package manager npm is fundamental for web development these days and can be combined with other skills.

        Else if you want to go the mobile route use Java and learn Android. You can download Android studio easily and get setup quickly.

  3. Marshall Mead says:


  4. glosoli says:

    I remember having a surprise visit to my bank branch at around 10am from the current Area Manager and the soon-to-be new Area Manager. The outgoing guy was a cool Thalish kind of guy.
    Which was just as well, as I was literally sat at my desk at the back (but in view of the banking hall) tucking in to a bowl of breakfast cereal (slightly hidden behind a low shelf). I was always late to work as I hated getting up early, so never had time for breakfast at home. Solution: eat it at work!
    Anyway, I went to let them in (down a security corridor) and instructed my assistant manager to *hide the evidence*, which he did, milk and all.
    But the current AM had seen me and greeted me with a cheery ‘Breakfast, Glosoli?’ hello as I opened the door. I was so embarrassed, but that was all he said.
    He was a good boss, because as long as you were doing good levels of business, any other little stuff didn’t bother him.
    All of that aside, working for oneself is the way of the glosolid.

  5. SirHamster says:

    Tangential, was talking with a friend from Beijing about games, and he brought up one of his favorites, called Werewolf. Never heard of it, but apparently it’s a 20 year old variant of the 30 year old Mafia.

    It’s always baffled me why my friends love to play this game. I can enjoy Bang, but Mafia is too much talk to gameplay for me. The obvious point is that the talk *is* the gameplay for them. The interesting connection that popped up in the morning commute is that the game is Spot the Subversive. Like kittens learning to hunt through play, learn to spot the Other.

    What’s the Tell, or (((Tell)))? Survival of the group depends on it!

    Something that important is going to be linked to gut-feeling subconscious processing, which is probably related to common sense rules and slave-norms discussed in the OP.

  6. Boneflour says:

    “If we actually had any customers at night, they would be upset to see me take a bite from an apple while putting boxes on shelves. Why?”

    Retail management systems are designed around saps. The systems can’t tell the difference between a Thal exception and sap disobedience. This is by design, because any Thal exception would be exploited by lower level managers to steal from the company, give handouts to buddies, etc.

    For example, Aeoli would be fine to eat an apple, because he probably paid for it, would throw it away in the trash, and wouldn’t get bits of food everywhere.

    The average 0 shits retail worker would be pulling apples from the produce bin and leaving cores behind the merch to rot. Telling the difference between the two costs more in labor than the merch being stolen. Therefore, no eating on the floor.

    When I waited tables, I was talking with the other servers about how likely employees were to steal pepper shakers or something. One girl said that before they installed CCTV cameras, people would routinely make entire meals for themselves without paying, steal and even take bags full of raw (packaged) steaks out the back.

    Basic logic is:

    -Even if 80% of people can eat without problems, 20% of entry level workers will leave shit laying around.

    -The potential fines from health code violations + shrinkage from rotted food/theft are worth more than increased productivity from eating on the job workers.

    -Therefore, no one eats in the workplace.

    Customers instinctively understand this dynamic at the “spiders are creepy” level. Dude eating an apple on the salesfloor = increased risk of greasy, sticky slime when they grab for a bottle of ranch of the shelf.

  7. Jdc says:

    Probably the most Thal site on the internet:http://auticulture.com/ along with http://visupview.blogspot.co.nz/

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