“Noble lie” is a fancy way of saying gaslight

Here’s cuckservatism in a nutshell.

Sure, it’s retarded to charge a machine gun and lose the war. But did you hear that triumphant music? It’s like a beautiful surrender, except cuckier. I hear they cut the scene where the imperial army marches over the dead samurai corpses and rapes their entire village.

The entire movie is about trying to relive the glory days of fighting WWII feudal militias as if katanas were the relevant part of the samurai’s fighting spirit. As a rule of thumb, if you find yourself charging a machine gun like it’s a good idea you should reconsider your premises.

This is the only thing I can think of where I disagree with C.S. Lewis, who puts it like this:

“One word, Ma’am,” he said, coming back from the fire; limping, because of the pain. “One word. All you’ve been saying is quite right, I shouldn’t wonder. I’m a chap who always liked to know the worst and then put the best face I can on it. So I won’t deny any of what you said. But there’s one more thing to be said, even so. Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things-trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones. Suppose this black pit of a kingdom of yours is the only world. Well, it strikes me as a pretty poor one. And that’s a funny thing, when you come to think of it. We’re just babies making up a game, if you’re right. But four babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your real world hollow. That’s why I’m going to stand by the play world. I’m on Aslan’s side even if there isn’t any Aslan to lead it. I’m going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn’t any Narnia. So, thanking you kindly for our supper, if these two gentlemen and the young lady are ready, we’re leaving your court at once and setting out in the dark to spend our lives looking for Overland. Not that our lives will be very long, I should think; but that’s a small loss if the world’s as dull a place as you say.”

-Puddleglum
The Silver Chair

Basically, the idea is that you should delude yourself and others for good reasons. Begging your pardon Mr. Lewis, but that’s horseshit and you should be ashamed.

Here’s a hypothetical for any Christians out there who think this is a good idea. Do you think we should teach people to worship the sun? I mean, praising the Son as the one who gives life to earth is such an abstract idea that maybe we should employ a more concrete metaphor so the unwashed masses can keep up.

It all comes out the same, right? I’m sure Jesus wouldn’t mind if we worship him by proxy. Or even better, let’s just worship “light” in general, maybe the sun as a lightbringer of sorts. Yeah, that’s got a ring to it.

Now, most Christians are going to react to this hypothetical correctly: with revulsion. That’s because I cut out all the complexity so you had to choose between the Truth and a socially useful lie. So I ask you, why would you think it’s better if you make it more complex? Do you think God won’t blame you just because you picked a lie complex enough that you only kinda understood? Don’t kid yourself bro, you ain’t smart enough to trick this guy.

I’m not even gonna get into the esoteric psychology of why people do this, just don’t fucking lie. You can’t make it work. You aren’t smart, you’re actually pretty retarded. Just fucking stop. Or you know, just ignore me and charge that machine gun. It’ll work this time because this time is different.

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About Aeoli Pera

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34 Responses to “Noble lie” is a fancy way of saying gaslight

  1. Santoculto says:

    Anthropomorphizing sun into “BabySun” of the telletubbies… >.<

  2. M- You are fantastic tremendous winners and I love you all!!!- M says:

    “WE WUZ THALZ”= Noble lie to make social failures feel normal. It’s a mythical story aimed at alleviating pain and providing the believer with a sense of being qualitatively superior to those not of Truu Thal lineage- even if those non-Thals are more successful in every way.
    ^Did that make anyone here feel good? Did I win any friends/power/resources? I told (a version) of the truth yet it will do nothing but instill anger and lower spirits. I don’t disagree with total truth or that the vast majority of noble lies are horse shit, but to say “NEVER DO IT” is shooting yourself in the foot. Ironically in the same way the cuckservatives do- by refusing to adopt strategies that can work because morals (And isnt likely something anyone can follow considering the theories around here that serve as noble lies ie: thal ubermensch, asperger’s lore). TBF- Noble lies are for manipulating groups not yourself, many arise naturally, and they can only be used if you have the power to implement them. How many “noble” lies were put out to elect Hillary by people that thought she was actually good? Because of the internet it was a huge mistake and only sped up the media and Hillary’s destruction. But you can ask Barry Goldwater if they never work. As for the personal: If you seriously believe in noble lies like “Truu Thal Ubermensch” its not because you chose to- its because the brain is a lie factory; with preference for those that make you feel higher status or better in general.
    To conclude; noble lies that can boost morale, work ethic, virtue(our city was founded by hardworking blah blah and they did a bunch of blah blah now everyone emulates them)= rare, but can do great things
    Noble lies that ignore reality(All races are equal, the samurai can do dis shit)= death sentence

    Had to clear up that false black/white dichotomy. No butthurt intended!

    • Koanic says:

      You are still refuting those unsophisticated strawmen in your head.

      There was nothing difficult to follow about this comment, or even original.

      Just yet another psychologically less-bounded individual scoffing at altruism.

      Boring.

      • M-I can afford to burn bridges with losers in China-M says:

        So unsophisticated it goes beyond black/white child thinking
        So boring that it threatens you to your core.
        You exemplify a truu thal altruist. Nobody even payed for the blog posts or forum! And I am sure you have taken the measures to prepare your family for the evil future- “near neighbor far fool” and all that, right buddy? Its not like you’ve been LARPING as a cult leader online instead of accomplishing things in real life since before 2013 or anything. No, you actually care about other people FOR SURE and that’s not just talk! I’m a semi-psycho melon and even my family is ready enough so your vault must have TONZ of beanz! Surely you aren’t a self absorbed prick that is all talk and no action! That wouldnt fit Occam’s Razor! I know you are so much stronger than the manboonz. Even though you spent two fucking years just trying to find shrimp that didn’t hurt your liddle tummy. The low energy. The yogurt binging. Thals may look like Schwarzenegger but they need to eat like West Coast trendies XD !
        The tiny thal cult is never going to give you power Koanic. And I know thats what you really want. It seethes from everything you have written. And you will never get it.

        Now we can hate each other for real now :D XD :)

        • Koanic says:

          > So unsophisticated it goes beyond black/white child thinking

          There is nothing black and white about the current state of the theory. That’s the moronic error you keep repeating. It’s like the software is on version 27 and you’re laughing and congratulating yourself on your superiority because you see the problems inherent in version 2.0

          If you think it’s wise to mock someone for being sick, that’s between you and God.

          > You exemplify a truu thal altruist.

          No, I’m half melon. That phrase is a joke which you are taking seriously.

          > Nobody even payed for the blog posts or forum!

          I don’t charge for inaccurate, evolving, untrustworthy prototypes.

          > cult leader

          Any validity that argument may have had was rectified by the design of the new forum, which subsidiarizes social and ideological control.

          You want to save weak altruists by discrediting evil Koanic. I want you to stop lying about things you haven’t read, much less understood. You are not a typed forum member, and thus you are not privy to the vast bulk of current theory. You have no clue what you are talking about.

          • M--M says:

            Dear Heavens, I forgot to join the phrenology circlejerk forum!! The great discoveries that have surely been made(what happens when you cross a starchild with a xenomorph?!?How will we escape Earth and seed Thalz throughout the universe?!) will never be known to a normie like me! You aren’t evil Koanic- that would require you to have actually fucking done something. You are just weak. Go boil your shrimp and do your stupid bullshit Koans to exercise the sickness demons from them. I hope your tummy feelz better boo.

            • glosoli says:

              I think MM is secretly Hillary Clinton, and she’s still pissed at losing the election.

              I worry, these ranting comments could bring on another of those seizures, so I hope she has some medication handy.

              ‘Nobody even payed for the blog posts or forum!’

              She exclaims, mis-spelling paid, and stating an incorrect fact regarding payment. Fake facts, meltdowns, poor spelling: must be Hillary.

            • glosoli says:

              When I give myself my daily enema and worship Satan I see visions of Hillary transforming into MM. Like a tadpole morphing into a frog before my eyes.

            • M--M says:

              Hey Koanic, sorry dude.
              I’m just going through some bad shit in my life, and I end up taking it out on people I see doing good things, cos I do mostly bad things. I will try not to be so cunty in future. Peace.

            • Koanic says:

              If your brother asks you for forgiveness 77 times, forgive him!

            • glosoli says:

              At least get the color right jeez

    • Son of Distant Trebizond says:

      Broadly agreed, Mr Melon.

      Also, in context, Puddleglum is not making an argument for self-deception. His reasoning is pragmatic and serves as defence against the gaslighting enchantment of a sorceress. Presented with two alternative propositions and in no position to compare their respective plausibilities by pure reason, Puddleglum invokes his virtue and sense of The Good to make a formally unavoidable choice. There is no ‘Noble Lie’ here because Puddleglum is not rejecting Truth, any more than a rejection of radical skepticism amounts to a turning-away from Reason (which is of course the point that Lewis is making).

      Remembering what is good breaks the enchantment, permitting Puddleglum and his companions to escape the underworld and gain a far greater apprehension of the truth. In the same way, you can’t really know shit until you’ve rejected philosophical solipsism and radical skepticism.

      • M--M says:

        Yeahp- it’s about focus; A platonic form is useless next to a mission statement with a daily schedule of exactly WHAT TO DO for the sake of the good.

    • bicebicebice says:

      ““WE WUZ THALZ”= Noble lie to make social failures feel normal. It’s a mythical story aimed at alleviating pain and providing the believer with a sense of being qualitatively superior to those not of Truu Thal lineage- even if those non-Thals are more successful in every way.”

      The thing about that is that you can measure it (DNA-test), instead of being just miserable at seemingly popping into existence for no good reason at all, that is actually something worth standing on. It could be a very good thing, aspiring to some actual human standards, and if you’re really itzy, you might even survive the next extinction event,courtesy of your autistically homemade Vault.
      The irony is that saps don’t have this problem, king of the rubbish tip means being King of the rubbish tip.

      But yes, of course, taking the Nobilid elevator to succes doesn’t work(I was born into deserving the world because muh ethics etc), you climb the steps(33,Hee Hee), one at a time. But, again, backing up that motivation scientifically SHOULD get one motivated, hell all the info one would need is free online.

      Without that information, and seemingly put into a miserable existence for no seemingly good reason at all, the troo thal (sperg suicide rates) is the first to ride the escalator down to hell, thanks to built in strength, he should be able to claw his way to be first in line, summoning up the motivation to win at failing.

      Kindness towards your own kind, free electronic boogaloo.

      Still, at the end of the day, you can’t force a guy to win. Many such cases.

      Sad!

      * just flip the culture upside down and the social failures win, bankloans and gibs are just the absolute same genetic welfare programs for chad and stacy and mr.ooga booga, they should starve to death living in a dump, but, as stated, we don’t live in that world, yet. Hail Freedom Forest, death to manbearbonobopigs

      • M--M says:

        Another unpopular theory: If the world were to suddenly flip, most truu thalz would be wiped out almost as fast as the welfare niggers. Only the small percent that have done shit in line with their thoughts and predictions will survive.

        • bicebicebice says:

          “Another unpopular theory: If the world were to suddenly flip, most truu thalz would be wiped out”

          WE did it before and we can do it again, lads! You cannot kill that which is already extinct!
          From Doomsday Preppers to more middle class oriented acceptable Homesteading, we owe those crazies a lot. The Goobernments of the world should send every household a compass homing device for Denisova Cave and other such sites where people lived continuously, “go there if we all die and you don’t have a Vault”.

          What is a Vault? An ITZ proof Man Cave! How can you not sell that to the public, two brides stoned at once, imo.

  3. Santoculto says:

    A noble lie

    ”Life have a sense”

  4. Arakawa says:

    Puddleglum’s attitude happens to be a good cure for people who neglect frivolous social constructs such as sex, war, good food, and nature (in both its good and bad manifestations) in favour of directing all of their attention to unmistakeably real, permanent, and important things. Such as the stock market. Or Being Like Folks. Or the current officially-endorsed theological conjectures.

    I happen to agree with the more nonsensical reality-bending interpretation of Puddleglum’s speech, but see no reason why anyone else should find it particularly convincing. I also recognize that it happens to invalidate most established theologies, and that the real-life Puddleglum was burnt at the stake for heresy sometime in the 14th century. But to me the alternative is something like Ed “No Dogs in Heaven” Feser (cf. http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2015/04/animal-souls-part-i.html).

    Think of it as the anti-Law of Attraction magic principle. Rather than making something real by making it seem plausible first, you act in accordance with what you make real regardless of whether it seems plausible right now. If someone going to unusual extremes with LoA looks like Steve Pavlina, someone going to unusual extremes with anti-LoA looks like Puddleglum.

    And yes, if it works (somewhat) for these personages, there is absolutely zero guarantee that it will work for you. And less than zero guarantee that it will work for you if you want a guarantee first. Magic is not a substitute for basic commonsense tasks like waking up in the morning, brushing your teeth, and not jumping in front of machine guns waving a katana.

    Remember also that the Council of Elrond discussion basically went like this:

    “We must go to Mordor and destroy the Ring.”

    “But Sauron is the huge machine guns and all we have is this hastily-assembled multicultural band of hikers.”

    “Look, just take the Ring, start walking, and we’ll figure out what to do when we get there. Maybe there’s a way around the huge machine guns but you’ll never find it just by having a committee.”

  5. Koanic says:

    “Begging your pardon Mr. Lewis, but that’s horseshit and you should be ashamed.”

    John C. Wright commits the same error. Sounds like the fairytailist’s flaw.

  6. Rime says:

    Begging your pardon, but the esteemable C.S. Lewis knew very well what it is like to be under the spell of empirical materialism and knew very well what it takes to fight against it. He is speaking of things that the Witch cannot measure, those things that the Witch cannot control. The Witch says that if she cannot measure and control such things, they could not possibly exist. Pah! The Witch’s lies are like bile. The confusion might come from the way in which Puddleglum issues his defense. Puddleglum makes his point in the language of the common man, not that of philosophers.

    I am not sure if I agree with you about the Last Samurai, it’s been a long time since I last saw the film and the history it was based on is a bit fresher in my mind. My understanding is that Saigo died trying to preserve his patrimony against materialism and the associated evils. Not sure if Saigo even appears in the film.

  7. Lazer says:

    Now comes the question: Where to find the other weirdos off the internet?

    If you dont partake in the noble lie you stick out like a sore thumb and end up destitute, out in the cold holding your dick, and possibly homeless.

    Its the difference between knowing something to be true and understanding it to be true. Acquisition of knowledge and strategies vs integrating knowledge and strategies.

  8. Lazer says:

    Also can we stop with cuck as an insult. It lost its effectiveness after I started hearing normies using it IRL.

  9. A.B. Prosper says:

    A minor problem with your C.S. Lewis analogy, Aslan is 100% objectively real in that setting following him is 100% a good idea and the people were using faith to resist being gas lighted not to gas light anyone.

    we can’t be sure if Jesus is really the Messiah or Savior or actually existed so our waters are much muddier.

    The cuck issue is the opposite, they are using faith to dodge truth, not reinforce it or resist lies

  10. Ophiuchus says:

    The NT’s cognition is bounded by an inability to comprehend how probability distributions work.

    The MT’s cognition is bounded by abstract moral honor code via connection to the digital truth anchor (i.e. orbitofrontal cortex).

    The MM’s cognition is bounded by pragmatic realism via connection to the analog reality anchor (i.e. parietal lobe).

    The TT’s cognition is bounded by the need for concrete complex framework coherence (i.e. the so-called “occweb”).

    But being bounded in a certain manner to a certain mode of cognition opens up an entire new range of intellectual possibilities for that given type. Being compelled–or perhaps coerced would be a better word–by your own mental architecture into not being able to act deceptively or espouse any opinion other than what you see as the honest truth is an extremely valuable, pro-social trait. It produces an unconventional intellectual output that can be made into something of, I believe, seminal value when tempered and refined against the whetstone of the parietal “reality filter”–but only if both parties are willing to cooperate with one another which will necessarily require patience and understanding from everyone involved.

    Demanding “OMG WHY HAVEN’T YOU TAKEN OVER THE WORLD YET” from a small group of unpaid amateurs working in their free time to patch together a shaky, largely unclear, essentially brand new system of anthropological classification is unreasonable to say the least and fucktarded to say a bit more. If we work together we’ll do great things, Enkidu. But if we fail to cooperate, we’ll be swallowed by the Beast. Regards, Gilgamesh

    • Koanic says:

      Great stuff Ophiuchus.

      I would just point out that we were using “bounded” in two different senses.

      I was referring only to ethical boundedness, on the gradient from sincere pathological altruism to compulsive predatory sociopathy.

  11. LEATHUR says:

    Pascal’s Fantasy Wager.

  12. Heaviside says:

    Repoastan’

    • bicebicebice says:

      Turns out it was the other way around tho, the false was true, very epic scale lies, backed by the “heehee no I didn’t do that,” of a five year old when he gets told off by his mother when he supposedly (he fucking did!),stole the cookies and ate them in plain sight. Chutzpah laced with psychopathy.

      Melon magic, very simple, very big, but where was the silver lining to make the lie worthwhile and acceptable? Shoe bomber terrorist?!? At least in the olden days, you got told that your hard work at the quarry warded of intergalactic demons from another dimension plus you got paid in grains and beer and meat and maybe some weed. What sap is interested in the CIA world factbook or similiar majistics?
      I don’t see any intergalactic demons around, but I sure see a lot of terorizer around these days. How can people bow down to people running a shitshow?
      Pepe vs all the paxpayers money used against the taxpayer and they still didn’t win, these globos. Many such cases. Sad!

      Not gonna say that they didn’t really think this one through, but that’s what i’m saying. He looks like a bulbhead Melon.

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