Analysis of paganism as I understand it

This is for Vejiortan, although he’s probably going to hate my perspective :-P. However, this is a comprehensive and representative expression of what I believe.

The common element of paganism in all its forms is metaphysics, the idea that material reality is an emanation of a higher, more abstract reality where ideals interact with each other. The most basic archetypes are like forces in physics with a lot more life and personality, which occasionally take on physical bodies or are embodied by avatars (Skyrim‘s daedra are a great illustration of the former, and the Avatar series is a good illustration of the latter). All material things have varying proportions of archetypal forms as their essence, along with some superficial material cruft that sometimes accumulates like dust. These essences occasionally shine through when the physical thing resonates with its ideal form; for example, your grandfather’s old sword might exude a captivating energy when the sun is in Aries. Contra thermodynamics, metaphysics says reality “wants” to be in a higher energy state where physical things resonate with, conform to, and channel their essential archetypes, but these heightened states cycle in accordance with the celestial dance (not exploding exponentially).

The archetypal forms are multifaceted and govern many qualities, so if we’re making a couple of them up we might say “Greeble is the abstract force that governs masculinity, light, and the color blue, and his wife Goober is the passive essence of femininity, trees, and the color yellow.” To apply a suitably ridiculous astrology to this silly, made-up example, a person born while the sun is halfway between Greeble and Goober might be a blond androgyne with a passion for forestry and cloud-gazing. My point is to indicate that the archetypes are not made of elements antd qualities; rather, elements and qualities are facets of the archetypes (all of this talk of facets is why crystals are such an excellent concrete analogue for metaphysical ideals). Thus, they are preferably represented by runes, glyphs, sigils, etc. rather than compositions of letters and syllables in order to express this holism. And to be clear, pagans believe there is an objectively correct set of archetypes which are discovered by humans like physical laws, rather than invented by us.

John Dee’s monas hieroglyphica, a globalist’s attempt to encapsulate a universalistic prisca sapientia in a single glyph, will serve as an example.

This reductionism is a perversion of paganism, Vejiortan surely would not approve!

The interaction between ideals and material physics is governed by the law of attraction: spirits attract similar spirits. A consequence of this is syncronicities, which is the idea that spiritual phenomena can manifest via a series of unlikely coincidences, if the spirit is strong enough and localized. For example, one of the Runesoup podcasts featured a guy who AB tested two plants, one growing inside a pyramid-shaped edifice and one growing outside the pyramid. Because the pyramid is a sigil for anti-entropic organization, it caused that plant to grow larger than the control plant. Alchemy, when it is not a metaphor for something else, refers to the art and science of directing and composing these fundamental forces. For example:

This brings us to Zodiacism, my name for the speculative antediluvian global melonhead religion © ® ™. I believe that the Zodiac itself was conceived as a repository of these archetypes and powers, which further serve the purpose of encapsulating highly abstract macrophenomena, like expressing the Pyrrhic cycle and the Cancer symbol.

In keeping with my belief that Jesus was actively interacting within this ancient religion, I believe the 12/13 tribes and apostles directly parallel the 12/13 signs of the Zodiac. So while I don’t buy Chris Knowles’ theory that Jesus was an Egyptian magician, I do think he had/has the most powerful grasp of meme magic of anyone in written history. This should put to rest any concern that I’m dismissing Paganism as frivolous melon magic—on the contrary, I think it’s mostly true and entirely compatible with the Christian worldview. The slight differences between Zodiacism and Christianity are of course partisan and history shows that Pagans and Christians can’t live together any more than can Christians and Mohammedans, but I think it’s clarifying to think of them as opposing perspectives within the same system. C.S. Lewis famously believed that Christianity is the culmination of paganism, in the same way that Jesus claimed that he was the fulfillment of the Mosaic law.

But the antediluvian version of the prisca sapientia was lost in the dark ages of the Younger Dryas, save what little may have been preserved or reconstructed by hermetic occultists in various times and places. Remnants are found anywhere we find artifacts of that civilization as hermetic philosophy: Swideria, Sumer, Maya civilization (and related), Egypt, Phoenicia, Benin City, Hindu India, Confucian China, Platonic Greece, Talmudic Israel (possibly also Solomon’s Israel), Catholic Christendom, Voltaire’s France, Norman England, Goethe’s Germany, and Freemason America. (In my opinion, it looks like Japan is next. They’re the only country whose elites appear to understand the meme magic they’re harnessing. I, for one, dread to welcome our new samurai overlords.)

There is a deep and troubling irony here: Zodiacists and Christians can’t live together (as I said), but they will never live without each other, either. “Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: ‘First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'”

(Nice hat bro.)

All this is to say that the supposed conflict of the ideas in paganism and Christianity is completely overblown, comparable to the supposed incompatibility of faith and science. The difference is entirely determined by the question of Yahweh’s authority (the source of the war in heaven, please recall), and the rest is either identity politics or purely academic. Dialectically speaking, we might as well be arguing which tribe was here first, which tribe is the first, real humans, or who the bigger victim is in all this. The accusation by Protestants, atheists, and pagans alike that Catholicism is rebranded paganism mixing true Aryan paganism with the Babylonian mystery cult is really quite facile: in light of Jesus’ words, it really couldn’t have been otherwise.

Outside of the nigh-eternal culture war in the institutions are the various nations and tribes who are getting along without any knowledge of all this. Here we find primitive, little-p paganism: a mishmash of superstition, cultural legends, and spiritual truths learned by observation of strange phenomena (like ghosts) and passed around like rumors. When we use the word “pagan” as an adjective to describe a mood, this sense of primitive awe is what we mean to inspire. These beliefs are the Hobbesian baseline of human tribal existence, and maleducated wiccans fall into this camp despite that their worldview is provided by institutional propaganda, on account of all the bullshit fanfiction they write for each other. Such people are easy to make fun of as useless savages, but if we’re being honest it’s just another chance to make fun of low-IQ, low-functioning druggies.

Less obvious is that your normalfag, basic bitch Greek genpop would also have fallen into this group. I believe Plato was in a distinct minority of hermeticists who studied metaphysics, hence the execution of Socrates, a man who believed in the gods but was nonetheless accused of corrupting the youth with his impious philosophy. The average Greek would have believed in the literal truth of the Iliad and gods who were just superhuman weirdos to be appeased and ingratiated. So, more like true believers of Marvel comics and less like the aedra and daedra in Skyrim. Despite my belief that their average full-scale IQs were slightly higher than modern whites (but lower than the 1850 Anglosphere), I don’t believe for a second that Greece was a utopia of hyperborean philosopher kings.

In the secular arena, you have the “psychoanalytical paganism” of Goethe, Jung, and now Jordan Peterson. They combine philosophical solipsism with the pattern recognition of anthropologists, and conclude that “gods” exist because we create them with magical Disney faith to fulfill our deepest desires. For example, Venus is a dream inspired by Freud’s sex drive, but since we’re living in the Matrix she’s as real as anything else. If you’re a philosophical sophist this makes perfect sense because everything is made of imagination, but to everyone else it appears like rationalizing belief for the sake of belief. Low-ability neo-pagans fall into this group because they don’t even believe in their own religion, they just want a tribal identity and religion is one of the boxes sociologists say you have to check.

tl;dr- Paganism is metaphysics, metaphysics is the recorded revelation of powers and archetypes, Zodiacism is the prisca sapientia, Christianity is indistinct from Zodiacism except for the Yahweh Question, little-p paganism is low prole, and humanism is solipsism masquerading as idealism.

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46 Responses to Analysis of paganism as I understand it

  1. Vejiortan says:

    Part One : I’ll remark which sources were used (and which were completely ignored).

    – John Dee was a cabalist who claimed to have channeled “enochian angels”. Enoch isn’t a “pagan” figure, he’s a old testamental figure.
    – the “law of attraction” was “invented” in 19th century america, and spread by norman peale (a freemason)
    – runesoup is run by a gay chaos magician who syncretizes all kinds of magical systems, gives courses on grimoirs (medieval “magical” books, usually based on cabalism) and likes gnosticism
    – “zodiacism” was defined by you as containing :
    Manichaeaism, Gnosticism, The Pantheon, The Demiurge, Karma, The law of attraction.
    Manichaeaism was influenced by jewish apocalyptism, gnosticism, early christianity, and zoroastrism. Gnosticism has old testamental and probably early christian origins. The demiurge is a figure within gnosticism and freemasonry. A pantheon is what probably all “pagan” religions had, but the gods you mentioned were specifically babylonian/mesopotamian. Karma is indian.
    – Goethe was a freemason and a member of the order of the illuminati
    – Carl Jung was a psychoanalyst

    Most of these sources are either based on the old testament, or on cabalism, or on very modern ideas. There is no mention of indian philosophy, the pre-socratics, egyptian “cosmotheism”, neoplatonism, the teachings of the druids, the norse sagas, any specific indo-european mythology.
    Jan Assmann, Collin Cleary, Stephen McNallen, Stephen Flowers, Heidegger, Guenon, Evola – none of them is even mentioned! It’s like you never heard about them.

  2. Vejiortan says:

    Part two :

    You claim that there are no important differences.between “Paganism” and Christianity, except the question of the authority of the old testamental god. This is absurd.
    Everyone who cares to do a little bit of research on various “pagan” traditions can find many fundamental differences. The question of god(s) as literal entities or as principles is only one of them. Some others : The question whether man is fallen or not (which is connected to the question whether man needs salvation or not), the question whether god/the highest principle is immanent or not (the question of separation), the question whether there is only one way to reach the truth or not (the question of universalism).

    Note that according to many historical sources, the judaism of antiquity was regarded as a religion which differs enormously from all other known religions. And the judaism of antiquity and christianity have the old testament in common, and many of the old testamental concepts regarded as unique among religions belong to christianity, too. The historical fact that all (or almost all) “pagan” religions were compatible with each other (co-existence, syncretism, correspondences a la “interpretatio graeca”), whereas christianity wasn’t compatible with any other religion (except maybe judaism) – hence the religious conflict in the roman empire – further emphasizes the special character of this religion.

    • Silas Brill says:

      Most of the differences boil down to the question of whether to serve Jehovah. Possibly all of them… I’ll make a list of what I can think of:

      -All those commands from Jehovah? They really are commands from Jehovah. If you think that means you have to obey, you’re probably a Christian (or a Jew).
      -Is mankind fallen? That actually means: “Has mankind disobeyed Jehovah?”. Do you care? Well…
      -Are the gods (or the one god, whatever) physical? Most Christians would answer “no”. They think their god is the pure essence of existence, which happens to also have opinions expressed in words. So yeah, a difference… but you and I (both pagans) also differ on that question (you say the gods are ideas, I say they’re straight-up physical). I wouldn’t consider it important.
      -Is there one god or many? Of course Jehovah says he’s the only one. Damn tyrant. But of course, he’s not saying those other guys don’t exist, he just wants to call them nasty names. Christians have other words for the same basic fact that those others exist. (Beelzebub, right-hand man to the bogeyman! There’s enough horrible things said about them to start a libel suit over.)
      -Universalism: Did I mention “damn tyrant”? Again, this isn’t “no other way is possible”, it’s “don’t you dare go elsewhere.”

      It would be wonderful to be able to agree with the Christians on some basic facts about wtf is going on… but that might run afoul of Jehovah’s unwritten command to “believe my lies”. We’ll see.

      • Vejiortan says:

        I agree that most differences of ideas arise from accepting the old testament god’s authority, but he didn’t argue this way. He claims that there are no important differences of ideas at all, so he regards “paganism” and christianity as two philosophically almost identical religions which happen to differ in one respect. Actually, he would be somewhat correct if he were talking about gnosticism and christianity.

        • Silas Brill says:

          True. I actually read that as a surrender to paganism, hence I was inclined to accept it… but you’re right that something would have to give for us to agree. If he’s not looking to surrender, then he’s asking us to surrender.

          • Aeoli Pera says:

            There’s nothing tactical about it. I’m telling you what I think.

            • Silas Brill says:

              I know. What it feels like to me is that you’re noticing truths, and you’re prepared to twist the Bible as much as needed to keep it in line with the truth. If so, I welcome you as an ally; the Bible just stopped mattering. But there’s also the possibility that you will react to the next bit of cognitive dissonance by trying to yank paganism back in line with the Bible – in which case you’re effectively an infiltrator, however little malice you may intend.

      • mendicant says:

        Nobody AFAIK believes in Jehovah anymore. The Jews stopped around the time they assembled the Talmud. Their religion became self-referential and ethnically solipsistic but eventually evolved a bunch of smart people who quit the racket and worked out quantum field theory. Christianity is belief in Christ, Judaism is belief in the Jews.

        • Silas Brill says:

          This is foolish. Most Christians (Aeoli included, as he just demonstrated) view Jehovah as the superior to Jesus who they reach through Jesus. I don’t have direct knowledge of the Jews, but considering how many other groups honor Jehovah (Freemasons, Wiccans, etc.) I doubt his own people have abandoned him.

        • glosoli says:

          All Churchians seem focussed mostly on Jesus and their own salvation.

          I would say that true Christians most definitely follow Jehovah, and know that Jesus is the way to the Father.

          Pagans never seem to allude to the thousands of amazing incites in the bible to mankind’s nature, the literal *rightness* of it all. Jehovah literally knows exactly how we should live, how we should be organised, how we should treat one another.

          I don’t see anything else coming close to that, mainly because everything else is fakedy fake fake, invented by men, not from God.

          • Silas Brill says:

            Since you seem to think that pagans “know the Bible is right”… speaking for myself, the Bible is fucked up. It contains a lot of truth, with enough rubbish alongside it that you’re probably worse off reading the Bible than just not knowing shit. Seriously, if we thought the Bible was that *right*, we’d be Christians already.

            • glosoli says:

              ‘Since you seem to think that pagans “know the Bible is right”’

              Where did I say that then? Are you unable to read?

            • glosoli says:

              Aeoli, you’re attracting some low IQ tree-huggers here, like this Silas Brill fellow.
              Speaking for myself, heh.

            • don't know if it is off topic says:

              The Bible contains many books.

              The target readership was very broad as to cultural background and intellectual level…

              It’s a series of tales for children, and at the same time a monumental recapitulation of philosophy.

              One of those books that are as deep as the reader is.

              Which has nothing to do with being *right* or *wrong*, of course.

            • Aeoli Pera says:

              Agree, except for the assumption that depth of such things continues forever, and that this doesn’t have anything to do with right or wrong. I think there are great kernels of truth in Lord of the Rings and Evangelion, but not as many kernels as in the Bible. It matters whether these individual kernels are right or wrong, although it’s not necessary that Middle Earth actually exists (except as a means to communicate the kernel).

              In the case of the Bible it does matter that it is correct as in factual, with a couple of exceptions. I don’t trust the literal interpretations of Job, Revelation, or anything that comes before the story of Abraham, although I admit they could be literally true and I just don’t see it.

        • Koanic says:

          I believe in Jehovah. Many Churchians don’t. They’re not Christians.

        • Heaviside says:

          QFT is a racket, and the best field theorists were goys anyways. (Dirac, Jordan, Stueckelberg, Haag)

    • mendicant says:

      AP’s account of paganism does seem overly reductive, but he’s right that Christianity follows from Hellenic paganism/metaphysics. And that is the variety of paganism that syncretized so zealously.

      In my view the metaphysical variation within paganism is so great as to preclude wide-reaching syncretism. Even among Teutons, late-era Norse Odinism differs fundamentally from the Roman-era cult of Wotan amongst Continental Germans. (Wagner was a fool, and modern Odinists are hopelessly incoherent and ahistorical.)

      The very questions you raise would be nonsensical to, e.g., Aztecs who believed themselves slaves of the wholly inscrutable Tezcatlipoca. The metaphysical assumptions of such people are irreconcilable with any that arose in the Mediterranean basin, though perhaps not with some strains of Islam.

  3. Edenist Whackjob says:

    Seems to me that Christiany contains a big Category Error in that the metaphysical actually wants to come down to us here in the real world, and this is supposed to be historical fact.

    Superstitious prole-pagans might allow for similar category errors (Icelanders literally believe in elves) yet intellectual pagans would want to keep everything nice and tidy. Real world here, metaphysics there (or, “in there”, rather, in the case of Peterson). So, officially enforced Category Error is where Christianity is different.

    • Silas Brill says:

      You think it’s a “category error” for the spiritual to interact with the physical? It really isn’t. If you accept that things exist in both, then “why can’t things that exist in one move to the other” is a valid question.

    • Mr. T. says:

      I would say that True Real Reality (TM) has spiritual influences and supernatural occurences. Might be hard to believe if you come from a modern Western worldview that excludes such things, but for example Christian deliverance ministries, healings, levitation, teleportation etc. actually really do seem possible. Miracles do happen, caused by forces of good or evil. Expands your view of reality and what is actually happening.

      Christianity is popular (also) because it’s more powerful against evil spiritual forces. Events may be local and nowadays mostly happen in missionary fields, but they do happen. God hasn’t left the building.

      A long video on the topic: Magicians assisted by Jinns/Demons,

  4. Z says:

    Do Demons exist? Or is belief in demonic entities and demonic possession not somehow a remnant of paganism in Christianity?

    • Koanic says:

      Demons exist same as people exist.

      It’s not a remnant of paganism, although some paganism is the result of demonic influence.

      • Akuma says:

        Most likely a hold over from paganism (i.e. Zodiacism). I suspect as well that Demons are encountered by Melons far more than Thals. The parietal allows the melon to wander too far into demon (or watcher) territory. Angels are most likely benevolent watchers. Thals on the other hand tend to be attuned more with the spiritual aspects of the animals around them.

        Whats your guys signs btw?

        • Silas Brill says:

          Sun sign Ares by the Tropical zodiac, or Pisces by the Sidereal zodiac. (I prefer sidereal, but tropical is what you usually get when you ask people for their sign).

          • Akuma says:

            Oh snap a synch hole just opened. I did not know sidereal existed until you just mentioned it. Apprantly though we have the same signs.

            • Akuma says:

              Also, it gets wooer. As soon as I posted the song I was listening too changed and I heard “Zyzz is a fucking spirit brah.”

  5. bicebicebice says:

    Nice picture of Koanic you found, always remember that the neonazi was invented by hollywood jews to “attack on sight” bigskull K-mensch. Good to see some hair on that noggin, could save your life too.

    funfact, altruism = all true ism, all trueism, all true-ism. al = the in arabic = The Truism = THE TRUTH (will set you free).

    Always remember the melon empire had one language and one culture, all corners on the empire spoke on language and the same “inside jokes” were as valid here as there, the cultural split and language/customs happened AFTER the tower of babel (or that was the final stroke that broke the camels back).

    paganism is the beta version of Christianity

  6. Yungsammy says:

    What are your estimations of IQs of different civilizations? You mentioned the ancient Greeks as having an IQ comparable to ours, what about the Mayans, Mesopotamians, Goethes Germany, Freemason America, etc.

  7. don't know if it is off topic says:

    A profile seen on a dating site

    “My self-summary
    Charming#smart# sweet# work hard# confident # positive# good taste # live health # open minded# curious # Energetic # sportive # fashion #optimistic # spiritual.”

    You’d think they were going to get diagnosed. But the only criterion for psychiatric diagnosis is: How many are doing it, here in the current year?
    Under a certain threshold, you’re sick. Otherwise, you’re sane.

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