Rostral/caudal streams- a speculative thing I done did

This is a highly abstract concept analogous to dorsal/ventral stream theory, which I barely understand. So it’s probably wrong. That said, I came up with it and it feels true, so it’s absolutely certain to be true (write that down, very important).

Here’s the basic idea behind dorsal/ventral stream theory:

Screenshot-2015-07-16-12.51.38-670x423

I further interpret this at a more abstract level to mean that the temporal stream is “essentialist”, concerned with subjective identity, explanation, and meaning whereas the dorsal stream is “analytic” (in the original sense of the term moral pragmatism*). concerned with objective behavior, prediction, and purpose.

I’ve commissioned an illustration of the analogous rostral/caudal streams hypothesis from the most talented trackpad artist I know.

plz kill me im an abomination

whyyyyyyy

(Slayerid tbh fam.)

The idea here is that there are two different neural networks people can slip into, a “Frame-first” decision-making loop and a counterfactual-first” decision-making loop. The former engages in empiricist reasoning and the latter engages in counterfactual reasoning. This overlaps somewhat with my hypothesis that white matter-heavy brains tend to rely more on deduction from principles whereas gray matter-heavy brains tend to rely more or induction from observations. Here’s how I think this would work…

The “high-speed” brain exists in a more dreamlike state of pure association. The emotional heat sink of gray matter is undersized to absorb the white matter’s fancies, which makes for an emotional and perhaps even psychotic conscious experience. When such a brain runs through its OODA loop, emotional impulses are poorly controlled and the “rational” step (the Decide in OODA) begins in the frontal lobe as an imperative. An abstract counterfactual is generated and passed through the caudal stream to the parietal and occipital lobes: “This is what is going to happen, now visualize how we’re going to make it happen.”

The “high-caliber” brain exists in a more sociopathic state of pure calculation. The average emotional experience is effortlessly dismissed as childish fancy, which makes for a n unsympathetic and perhaps even joyless conscious experience. The “rational” Decide step begins in the occipital as a set of possibilities and is passed through the rostral stream to the parietal’s game theory engine, and then to the frontal lobe where the outcomes are judged to determine which is preferred. “This is how it is, now visualize the possible outcomes and pick the best one.”

My hope is, if this theory is correct, it will explain the mapper vs. packer mindsets and Paul Cooijmans’ type 1 vs. type 2 personality divide.

*Ed: Fun fact, sometime in the last two months Google started burying results for this idea. Try Googling moral pragmatism.

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39 Responses to Rostral/caudal streams- a speculative thing I done did

  1. Koanic says:

    Koanic’s Mohawk pairs well with dorsal/ventral stream theory.

  2. Pseudorandom Bypasser says:

    You forgot the most important:

  3. Pseudorandom Bypasser says:

    There seems to exist a separate speed vs. caliber dichotomy recarding TTs, roughly following Jungian/MBTI dominant iNtuition vs. Judging. It seems like back-dominant whole-brain synthesis cascading to front vs. precise and sequential front-dominant reasoning that pings back for lateral expansion on deduced ideas. Compare your dilated pupils to this guys’ constricted ones:

    I’m not yet sure if mapperdom has more to do with T-back’s occweb, deepsock’s abstraction and independence or both. There definitely exists MT hackers and programmers. Packerdom seems like a C-back/CC thing. In many ways melons do seem like more developed and sophisticated modern humans. Maybe we are just seeing large group adaptation, competitive reproductive strategy and egocentricity in both of them, and because of our brains’ tendency to spot patterns and connections we think that they are somehow related. Maybe M-back emulates intuition/mapping/genius by reaching high enough granularity in it’s formal reasoning and verbally tilted intelligence. They really do seem to fail at holism, emergence, pattern recognition and detailed simulation (see the “crystal clear water flowing in a detailed but limited pipe system vs. ideas floating freely in a muddied water bucket” analogy; https://aeolipera.wordpress.com/2017/10/12/the-manichean-dialectic/#comment-12577 ).

    Cooijmans’ types seem like something different. Type I is basically asperger, male, low DR, MBTI Thinking, Big Five Egocentricity, Baron-Cohen’s Systemizing, grey matter and visuospatial intelligence. Type II is neurotypical, female, high DR, MBTI Feeling, Big Five Agreeableness, Baron-Cohen’s Empathizing, white matter and verbal intelligence. It boils down to reason vs. emotion or mechanistic vs. mentalistic. By the way, someone should edenpill Saint Qoymans. His website already features an astrological analysis, and he seems to be interested in woo. Having an “Edenic facereading” on his website could pull more high-AH, high IQ crowd. His readers are likely mostly MT and higher IQ TT outsiders. The political incorrectness keeps the Mensa crowd out.

    Challenge: Write similar high-level descriptions of ventral and dorsal streams’ functioning as you did with Koanic’s Mohawk. These existing “color and details” vs. “location and movement” are low-level and dull.

    • Ø says:

      >”Maybe M-back emulates intuition/mapping/genius by reaching high enough granularity in it’s formal reasoning and verbally tilted intelligence.”

      I’d rather take an ugly blade made of cold, harsh, steel into battle than a wooden practice toy that felt good in my hand.

    • Are you from neighbor country of saunas and melancholy, Pseudorandom?

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      >There seems to exist a separate speed vs. caliber dichotomy recarding TTs, roughly following Jungian/MBTI dominant iNtuition vs. Judging.

      Koanic is much stronger in extraverted thinking than I am, whereas I’m much stronger in introverted intuition. Our processing speeds are likely comparable (and our head sizes too), but he probably has a thicker cerebral cortex whereas I’m running more of a machine learning algorithm.

      >It seems like back-dominant whole-brain synthesis cascading to front vs. precise and sequential front-dominant reasoning that pings back for lateral expansion on deduced ideas.

      Matches what I was thinking about as I wrote this, but it looks like you forgot to finish your thought here.

      • Pseudorandom Bypasser says:

        >Matches what I was thinking about as I wrote this, but it looks like you forgot to finish your thought here.

        What do you mean? That’s all I meant to write.

  4. Nick says:

    Hello there Aeoli,I haven’t understood yet what this blog is about,I guess it’s the work of a polymath who likes finding patterns?anyway I found the site by searching something about neanderthals,it seems like you are into old anthropology,what I like is that your writing seems non-mainstream but anyways is there any e-mail where I could contact you?I’ve some ideas regarding some patterns about anatomy and anthropology,let me know if you are interested.

    • A general “best of Aeoli” / “introduction to aeolid thought” / “descent into madness” post would be a great thing. Since the blog spans so many different topics, from winning to neanderthals to genius psychology to more or less context-free pure-sperging category-theory dressed up in anime clothes.

      • Aeoli Pera says:

        >A general “best of Aeoli” / “introduction to aeolid thought” / “descent into madness” post would be a great thing.

        Yeah, I’ve been meaning to do that for a while. Maybe just a redirect to the “mental illness” wiki.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      >Hello there Aeoli,I haven’t understood yet what this blog is about,I guess it’s the work of a polymath who likes finding patterns?

      The blergh isn’t about anything in particular. I’m not a polymath. but I do like finding patterns. Occasionally the patterns hold up to scrutiny.

      >is there any e-mail where I could contact you?I’ve some ideas regarding some patterns about anatomy and anthropology,let me know if you are interested.

      Sure, aeoli dot pera at gmail works.

  5. Edenist Whackjob says:

    I’ve thought about a similar split in peocessing style and I’ve made it a point to try and train in the mode that is foreign to me. With some success, I think (compare my writings now to 2015 materials).

    Meditation provides insight into one’s flow of mental energies, allowing shunts and overrides to be made. This is the core of hacking style, although more general exercises could be devised, I’m sure.

    I’m sure aeolid neuroscience could become a new domain of winning! If such an approach to self-modding is taken.

    • A large part of hacking cognitive style is also just hanging around people with the desired style and setting your brain telepathy to “open” so you’ll learn by osmosis. I find myself picking up others’ brainwaves quite easily that way, but may be quirk of my particular arch. Pretty funny when you find yourself picking up eg phrases and hand gestures from other people (although the latter is very significant as I believe as the hands are are the dexterity-interface to the mental realm – when you make a chopping or waving motion, you are actually doing something to your thoughts – cf mudras in Eastern thought (Rudolf Steiner also mentioned something about the hands being the last remaining interface for direct manipulation of the astral or somesuch)).

      • As soon as I have achieved full ramen profitability via passive income, I will then shift all of my time over to this type of learning. Good times ahead.

      • Aeoli Pera says:

        >A large part of hacking cognitive style is also just hanging around people with the desired style and setting your brain telepathy to “open” so you’ll learn by osmosis. I find myself picking up others’ brainwaves quite easily that way, but may be quirk of my particular arch.

        I think this is what drives the blogosphere, and I’ve noticed similar patterns in the way my music taste has followed one band to the next.

        >Pretty funny when you find yourself picking up eg phrases and hand gestures from other people (although the latter is very significant as I believe as the hands are are the dexterity-interface to the mental realm – when you make a chopping or waving motion, you are actually doing something to your thoughts – cf mudras in Eastern thought (Rudolf Steiner also mentioned something about the hands being the last remaining interface for direct manipulation of the astral or somesuch)).

        Plausible. Swedenborg thought the cerebellum was the seat of human spirituality.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      >I’ve thought about a similar split in peocessing style and I’ve made it a point to try and train in the mode that is foreign to me. With some success, I think (compare my writings now to 2015 materials).

      I can affirm that you’ve achieved levels of coherence that approach “average” :-P.

      >I’m sure aeolid neuroscience could become a new domain of winning! If such an approach to self-modding is taken.

      That would be a good topic for somebody else, I’m more interested in drilling down into fundamentals.

  6. This relates to a concept that we were discussing before leaving to some Uber-Melons with like a system RAM ridge that goes over the top of the head from the back to the front.

    Also why no smiley face on cartoon Aeoli? :'(

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      That’s not cartoon Aeoli, it’s a self-portrait by mysterious, tortured artist A. Pera.

      • Mocheirge says:

        Is A. Pera your brother or something? I notice you share the same surname.

        Also, your first initial is the same. Is his first name “Aeoli” perchance? That would be super-amazing-coincidental (and awfully confusing if you are siblings).

        (incidentally, this sort of “coincidence” was noticed by my grandparent with dementia. A visitor at the hospital had the same name and face as a relative, and the grandparent thought it was amazing how similar the visitor was to the relative. Normal brains would have made the “visitor = relative” connection instantly, but dementia seems to break associative abilities.)

        • Aeoli Pera says:

          I know nothing about the mysterious A. Pera. Remember how Spiderman would get Peter Parker to do his photo shoots? Our relationship is like that. I meet A Pera in an unmarked van and take pictures of him dressed as Spiderman…it’s really weird actually, but he seems to enjoy it.

  7. Also… I don’t know how to say this but uhhh… I seem to have a high calibre high speed brain… I have many leather bound books… and my desk smells of rich mahogany…

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