First thoughts regarding premarital sex

I ought to explain my previous comment because I don’t want to cause anyone to stumble.

Generally, I’ve assumed the default position that sex before marriage is illicit. This is the same as my position on monogamy. I’ve never examined either belief in a serious way, it’s simply something I inherited from Western traditional culture as found north of the Hajnal line. This traditionalism is, within the scope of my unserious knowledge on the subject, the strongest argument against premarital sex. Monogamy and waiting until marriage are also my first instincts, as it’s always struck me as irresponsible in the extreme to have sex if I can’t afford to support the potential child.

However, I recognize that my instincts are often maladaptive. My inclination is to wait until the elders of my tribe arrange my marriage and then work to make that pairing as successful as possible. Obviously that scenario will never happen in a low-trust social milieu, so I have to examine reality as it stands and adapt. The Bible says God will provide to those who ask, but it also says a man who doesn’t work shouldn’t eat. Clearly then, there are two mistakes to avoid: 1) merely asking God for a wife and not seeking one, and 2) only seeking a wife on my own terms and not asking God to provide.

So now that I have the means to provide for one (1) child, I have the desire to do so. Because I’m autistic, this forces me to resolve the paradoxes raised by the current sociosexual climate. Approximately zero girls will marry a 30-year-old virgin because they won’t be attracted to him, on account of the celibacy acting as negative social proof (the only possible explanation, they reason, is that the man is a loser). She may be attracted to a 20-year-old virgin because such a young man can reasonably claim to be a late bloomer (in R-selected terms), and not a loser (certainly not an Alpha WINNER though, because such a man will have deflowered girls in high school). Within the moral framework I’ve inherited, where premarital sex is always a sin, 99% of men who remain virgins at 25 will thereafter be celibate for life. And this is what we generally see in the modern church, insofar as young men attend at all (they don’t).

This raises Koanic’s point, which I regard as the strongest case in favor of premarital sex being moral in some situations. The modern sociosexual situation is unprecedented in the Bible. Girls have always been sloots, just as men have always been gangsters, but it has not been that the church and state have colluded in a massive, multi-generational religious propaganda campaign to destroy the nuclear family. If we accept that this is true, we must also expect that much of our received knowledge is specifically intended to cuck us. And this is observably true: the advice of my parents, teachers, and pastors for dealing with the opposite sex have been unfailingly delusional and disastrous. If Jesus is Truth, then he is present in the PUA community (and absent from the church) because that’s where truth about sexuality can be found.

If God considered reproduction merely a necessary evil, then he would not have used it as a reward for the patriarchs. Taking an outside perspective, it would dishonor my parents for me to end the paternal line merely because muh neanderthal maturation trajectory, just as it would dishonor them if I continued in the NEET lifestyle. Furthermore, if God loves me (a premise for which I have considerable evidence!) and would prefer to give me bread rather than a snake, it follows that he would not want me to burn with frustrated lusts except as necessitated by dysfunctions inherited from sin (compare to blindness, lameness). That conclusion would be pure masturbation, which is more or less equivalent to the original sin. Therefore, I claim that if it’s possible for me to marry and not disobey God, I should do it. However, I need to examine some things more closely that I’d never needed to examine before.

I ought to warn you all ahead of the inevitable arguments that I’m not really interested in your opinion on this particular matter. Sexuality is possibly the most emotional realm of human life after religiosity, and therefore a hotbed of psychosis, disinformation, and conceit, and so I’m going to play it close to the chest. That said, I’ll be thinking out loud, on the blog, as is my INTJ habit.

Edit: Many thanks to Boneflour for entertaining in my absence. The woo must flow.

About Aeoli Pera

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78 Responses to First thoughts regarding premarital sex

  1. everlastingphelps says:

    The only biblical support of celibacy is Paul, who holds the celibacy is best because it allows one to devote themselves entirely to ministry. That is because a man with a family puts his familial obligations as the head of the church in his family first, and outside ministry second.

    As for the 30 year old virgin issue, it’s an issue for 30 year old women. It is not so much for 18-20 year old virgin women. Those should be your prime market, because the age difference is appropriate (evolutionary and traditionally) and because of the real reason Western Civ is based on restraining female hypergamy — a women is a chimera of all the men she has had sex with. Every load she takes invades her body with the man’s DNA, even if she does not conceive. The only women that will carry ONLY your DNA are women that have been with no other men. The more men she’s been with, the more foreign DNA she carries.

    • bicebicebice says:

      “The more men she’s been with, the more foreign DNA she carries.” thats a good one, take it a bit further and that is how one of ones own tribeswomenz becomes a foreigner, even if the men are natives, and the male versions becomes etheral narcissists barely existing in the physical realm not being much good use to anyone because they are junkie poonhounds, and carriers of the aids and herpalerps and zero self-esteem.

      Based God must be a family man.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      >The only biblical support of celibacy is Paul, who holds the celibacy is best because it allows one to devote themselves entirely to ministry. That is because a man with a family puts his familial obligations as the head of the church in his family first, and outside ministry second.

      Right. I think the modern Christian attitude is gnostic and self-serving, kind of like how normalfags only have children when the birth control “accidentally” fails.

      >As for the 30 year old virgin issue, it’s an issue for 30 year old women. It is not so much for 18-20 year old virgin women.

      Yes and no. church girls will (often enough) be less degenerate at this age, drugged-out sloots will be more degenerate because peak SMV.

      > Those should be your prime market, because the age difference is appropriate (evolutionary and traditionally) and because of the real reason Western Civ is based on restraining female hypergamy — a women is a chimera of all the men she has had sex with.

      I’ll be shooting for recent college graduates in the new underclass, mostly. Church-attending baristas with classics degrees, that sort of thing.

    • Z says:

      “The only biblical support of celibacy is Paul,”

      But didn’t Jesus himself say that thing about the eunuchs for the kingdom of God?

      9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

      10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

      11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

      12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

      • glosoli says:

        Some.

        What’s your point anyway?

        • Z says:

          That it wasn’t “the only biblical support of celibacy” as mentioned above. It seems to me that Jesus said that if you cannot/don’t want to marry under such conditions (no divorce, no fornication), then you should be celibate. But maybe there are other interpretations.

          • glosoli says:

            Yes, I somehow missed the quote. Moroccan Internet.

          • SirHamster says:

            There is also a special reward noted for some set of virgins in Revelations 14:4.

            “These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

            No idea if that is a self-selected or God-selected set – but you can be sure that no one who has sacrificed for the sake of God will lack for reward:

            And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. (Matt 19:29)

            Losing an existing wife or a potential wife looks like the same kind of thing to me.

  2. mobiuswolf says:

    What he said. ;) Depends on where you shop.

  3. Koanic says:

    This is another one of those questions that can be resolved by listening to the KJV on random shuffle enough. There’s an entire ethos that can be downloaded into one’s brain, which removes all doubt, and instills patient wisdom instead. All of this weird abstract reasoning doesn’t sound right to me.

      • Koanic says:

        Bullshit. The Bible covers every ethical mating scenario from war brides to rural informal lovers to court concubinage. There are even bits about marrying whores. You can assemble situational guidance from those reference points. But it will be situational. The weird abstract rationalizations here are way off the mark. The scripture present is poorly chosen and clumsily used. Obviously with a homeschooled patriarchal high schooler there will be no premarital nooky and with a barista sloot you will have to escalate nonstop just to retain respect. But all that’s irrelevant if God’s calling you to celibacy for a season or life. And if He says nothing to you, then you should probably be prudent and wait till you’re financially established and psychologically stable. Or else game career girls.

        Don’t believe the lie that you have to practice promiscuous PUA to uncuck yourself and raise your SMV in degeneracy. The KJV will do it just fine. Because it will turn you into a virgin flint-eyed bronze age patriarchal murderer, and chicks dig flint-eyed patriarchal murderers.

        • Aeoli Pera says:

          There’s the old Koanic! I’ve missed that intensity and passion. It’s like hearing metal again after years of Katy Perry and NPR.

          I have no issue with remaining celibate. It would be a relief, even, just like it would be a relief to close my vault doors and take up a rigorous study of math, then die young and depressed like a proper genius! But I believe very strongly that God would not approve of us sitting around waiting for death as if we were imprisoned. Where is the joy in that? And I’m not normal in that I view failure to do the correct thing as being at least as bad as doing the incorrect thing.

          That said, I intend to do my due diligence because God scares the shit out of me.

          • Koanic says:

            Obviously you should not bury your talent in the ground. I have no idea where you would get that idea from what I wrote. Anyway Paul, Captain Celibacy himself, had a wife and a son. Being a prominent apostle will do that. Get your head right with the Bible and everything else will follow. See Pastor Steven Anderson for details. And I have never sounded like Katy Perry and NPR.

          • SirHamster says:

            > That said, I intend to do my due diligence because God scares the shit out of me.

            The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. You’re off to a good start, take heart.

    • Son of Distant Trebizond says:

      There’s no warrant for fossilised principle to get in the way of simple humane human-ness (give that last word a greek gloss for punnitude).

      In Gods eyes, I do far worse than you; I suspect he will consider you justly in comparison.

      • Aeoli Pera says:

        >There’s no warrant for fossilised principle to get in the way of simple humane human-ness (give that last word a greek gloss for punnitude).

        I have nothing against principle. God’s laws are a great approximation of his will for us. But I think it’s obvious that we’ve been deceived, and the Accuser can quote scripture better than any human prosecutor. So, lacking wisdom, I’ll ask for it. Meantime, I’ll prepare for war as if I will have to fight it.

        >In Gods eyes, I do far worse than you; I suspect he will consider you justly in comparison.

        I was joking with Heaviside before, in truth God doesn’t judge us relative to each other. There is not one person who is righteous, not even one.

  4. Daniel says:

    >Approximately zero girls will marry a 30-year-old virgin because they won’t be attracted to him, on account of the celibacy acting as negative social proof (the only possible explanation, they reason, is that the man is a loser).

    Why would she ever need to know?

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      Because there’s faking it and there’s making it. If I’m going to fake being experienced with women it has to be plausible, and I’m bad at acting, role-playing, etc. There’s confidence and then there’s confidence, grok?

      • Patrick says:

        Dude if you can hold an erection and be a bit commanding that’s enough. That puts you mid table already. Your natural sensitivity, a burden in the street, will do you well between the sheets. You will have natural talents that you can’t even imagine yet. So be happy about that. Sex is a game and there are many experienced poker players who still lose over time but they play because they enjoy it. Sex is like that. You’re a natural winner in comparison.

  5. Heaviside says:

    >Approximately zero girls will marry a 30-year-old virgin because they won’t be attracted to him, on account of the celibacy acting as negative social proof (the only possible explanation, they reason, is that the man is a loser).

    No woman cares about a bunch of abstract numbers rolling around in your head. Does she hold herself to any standard of mathematical consistency when thinking about her own body count? “Well that time I was on vacation…”

    appearances > “reality”

    If you are waiting until marriage then just tell her that. If you want to fuck around then do that and ask God for forgiveness later. Don’t worry, I’ll be busy doing much worse things so you’re sure to look good in comparison.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      >appearances > “reality”

      As I said to Daniel, there’s confidence and then there’s confidence. Imposters have to carry the burden of imposter syndrome and I have a low tolerance for that.

      >If you are waiting until marriage then just tell her that.

      I’ll try that with a few of them and see if it takes. I expect about 20% of the dating pool would not lose their respect for a man who insists on this. And yeah, I know you’re supposed to NEXT everybody blah blah blah muh standards but that’s Alpha male advice for you.

      >If you want to fuck around then do that and ask God for forgiveness later.

      I’d prefer to avoid self-deception if at all possible, but I think there’s a real possibility that it’s psychologically impossible to reproduce without some self-deception.

      >Don’t worry, I’ll be busy doing much worse things so you’re sure to look good in comparison.

      Appreciate that, thanks :-). And thanks for white-knighting in that other thread earlier, it made me happy.

      • Patrick says:

        Heaviside is right if you can hit the spot that’s all that counts. Then she expose facto justify anything and you’ll be the Unicorn Man or something.

      • SirHamster says:

        > I’d prefer to avoid self-deception if at all possible, but I think there’s a real possibility that it’s psychologically impossible to reproduce without some self-deception.

        Always hear the wedding sermons about “love glasses” for your spouse – a personalized Reality Distortion Bubble.

        There’s what is, and what is because it will be. And when it happens, it’s not deception, it’s foresight.

  6. Tom Kratman says:

    I am beginning to hate your site…delays and lock ups. Please put someone to death for it.

    Now, to business. 1) The actual traditional rule on sex, fairly irrespective of subculture and class, has usually been that once you’re engaged, the people avert their eyes provided you and she are ready to move up the wedding date if she comes up pregnant. 2) the proper age for a girl for you, traditionally, would be 22 though I would say 21-23. 3) You can find innocent and decent girls at that age, still, though it will be harder. It is not impossible that said innocent and decent girl might find your virginity both tempting and charming. 4) You may need to look outside the west. 5) It will be somewhat easier to find a suitable girl in the south than the north, but only somewhat. 6) if you are really concerned about learning the mechanics of the thing, that’s what hookers are for.

  7. Cloom Glue says:

    I have in insight into what is wrong with MBTI and Vox Day’s socio-sexual hierarchy. The MBTI needs a 5th element which is Believers and Unbelievers (B/U), because the believers can transcend their position, rank and character relatively quickly, over years of time, and the Unbelievers cannot.

    For example, I do not resemble my former self and I have had three women say such about me, without me asking for a measurement. It was measurable in my work rank, also. It was by fasting and prayer and attention upon the sacred heart of Jesus Christ where I was letting the old self die. It is a painful exercise sometimes and other times it is a burden lifted. I found my wife, without trying, after I changed, while rejecting the error in another woman, while praying, and later asking God for a better opportunity for me.

    The socio-sexual hierarchy and the MBTI does not fit me. I am a moving target and the people who fit it most perfectly are in the fallen world, and of the fallen world and it does predict them.

      • Patrick says:

        Wow Koanic you can be such a prick man. Of all the things to say that’s the least constructive. Prayer can be very positive in specific situations, and I think right now it’s not helpful to be so pushy with what you’re saying. Even if you’re right you don’t need to be right right now. The guy is giving constructive advice and good advice which is a very alpha thing actually.

        • Patrick says:

          It’s alpha to elevate those around you with your advice and presence and not be so desperate and grippy all the time. You need to leave room. I think his is a great post and very heartfelt and constructive. That’s the main issue. We all need to be elevating each other to be the alphas of the whole thing and then amongst ourselves it doesn’t matter. Paul McCartney was a Delta so fuck does it matter about all this stuff?

          • Koanic says:

            We definitely do not need to all be alpha. You don’t understand the sociosexual hierarchy.

            • The Anti-Gnostic says:

              The sociosexual hierarchy is subjective in nature and perpetuated by other than Godly men. You might as well cast your lot with feminists and SJW’s.

        • Cloom Glue says:

          Koanic made me laugh with the simplicity. I’ve been reading here long enough to know that was coming before I posted it. It is predicable.

      • The Anti-Gnostic says:

        So you called a commenter a “delta” without any background information about his character or having any direct, face to face interactions with him. Exactly why the sociosexual hierarchy is patently arbitrary in nature. Thanks for proving my point.

  8. SirHamster says:

    I have in insight into what is wrong with MBTI and Vox Day’s socio-sexual hierarchy. The MBTI needs a 5th element which is Believers and Unbelievers (B/U), because the believers can transcend their position, rank and character relatively quickly, over years of time, and the Unbelievers cannot.

    I think they are meant to be snapshots. Believers can advance in rank and character because the healing and removal of spiritual flaws brings the B to the ideal, which is Alpha. (and Omega? Hrm… )

    The snapshot changes over time, but that is because the Believer is spiritually alive and dynamic, while the Unbeliever is spiritually dead and static. Until the Us finds Jesus. Stay on mission.

    • Cloom Glue says:

      True. However, sometimes we look like a mouse and sometimes we look like a lion. The spiritual dynamic, which you describe, defines that too.

      Corinthians 12:9-11 Gladly therefore will I glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may dwell in me. For which cause I please myself in my infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ. For when I am weak, then am I powerful.

      The MBTI non-believers have no witness of that manifesting, and neither do the socio-sexual hierarchy experts understand that when they see it, unless they have some Holy Spirit in them.

  9. The Anti-Gnostic says:

    “This raises Koanic’s point, which I regard as the strongest case in favor of premarital sex being moral in some situations.”

    The strongest secular case, but not biblical case. Sir Hamster absolutely obliterated his and Glosoili’s logic. Premarital intercourse is prohibited for true Catholics. If you want to go down that road and draw God’s ire, be my guest.

    • Cloom Glue says:

      I also wrote to convince Aeoli Pera of the error in his logic (my comment was Dec 18). AeoliPera says, “forces me to resolve the paradoxes raised by the current sociosexual climate”. He adheres too much to that socio-sexual hierarchy, and so I threw a punch at that hierarchy, like I see you did also, above.

      I think adhering to the socio-sexual hierarchy is “denying the power thereof [of Godliness]” (a quote from 2 Timothy 3).

  10. Ø says:

    >”Sexuality is possibly the most emotional realm of human life after religiosity, and therefore a hotbed of psychosis, disinformation and conceit

    https://goo.gl/images/89pLjh

    https://goo.gl/images/Y9u55n

  11. Pingback: Skin in the Game – Defining the problem of Western Christian sexual degeneracy | Aeoli Pera

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