Deep sockets = Dyadic (binary) thinking + Disagreeableness

I think that covers most of it. There may be some associative horizon mixed in as well, but I suspect that’s an artifact of some other phrenological trait that tends to show up with deepsock.

The Ghost Not places a negation – a sign flip – around every input to mentation at the lowest level, which emerges as a negation of the answers, like an invisible negation spread over the entire result. One effect of this is to convert inclusive thinking to exclusive thinking. Management consultants have a lament that they must sing over and over again – “Not X or Y – X and Y!” It is needed because most people immediately assume that options are by default exclusive rather than inclusive. A person being shown how to submit her website URL to Altavista became very distressed because she did not want to put “Hotel” because people might search for “Ibiza”, and vice versa. The very idea that she might be able to enter “Hotel” and “Ibiza” to a sophisticated automated free text search system never even occurred to her.

This effect has very serious consequences indeed. At all times, each dyadic person must believe that their internal whiteboard is reality – otherwise the cognitive apparatus for conventional perception would not be much use. If it is reality then it must be complete – they can acknowledge no deeper reality that the whiteboard must conform to. Therefore any data not already possessed by the person is regarded by them as false, and automatically denied until they are forced to accept it by direct confrontation. Then they edit history to pretend that they have always “known” the fact. This presents an insuperable barrier to learning, and in situations where force cannot be used, can bring down major corporations employing thousands of people.

Finally, a result of exclusive thinking is that it simply cannot cope with interacting causes for things. Each aspect of a dyadic’s life is divided into little discrete compartments, that are pretended to be each an exhaustive and complete understanding of its topic. This yields a situation where knowledge and hence understanding is held in isolated packets, which the dyadics will not integrate. Instead, they prefer to use one isolated fact that is totally unrelated to what they are denying as the basis for their denial.

The Ghost Not

I suspect these behaviors are an artifact of what I call “ratio-driven feeling” where the OODA loop (Perception -> worldview -> emotional reaction -> rational redirection of impulse) is actually ODOA (Perception -> worldview -> object categorization -> emotional redirection of object models) in Asperger’s and people with very deep sockets. That is, tree-first perception versus forest-first perception. If people are always asking you “why do you have to analyze everything?” this is probably your cognitive style. Forest-first perceivers enjoy rainbows less when they are explained because this robs them of their mystery, whereas tree-first thinkers enjoy the things they understand more and dislike what they don’t understand. So, when I say that people with Asperger’s are “hypermoral” it’s not to praise us as more holy and less sinful, what I mean is that we are mostly unable to act on instincts without reference to philosophies we can clearly articulate (and vice versa for socialites). It’s why dancing is a much higher-order level of thinking for us than quantum mechanics: if we are perceiving on the order of forests, that’s the result of making sense of many, many trees first.

For more on that, see the Nerd as the Norm.

Disagreeableness is used here in the usual Big 5 sense:

People high in agreeableness are nice: compliant, nurturing, kind, naively trusting and conciliatory. However, because of their tendency to avoid conflict, they often dissemble and hide what they think. People low in agreeableness are not so nice: stubborn, dominant, harsh, skeptical, competitive and, in the extreme, even predatory. However, they tend to be straightforward, even blunt, so you know where they stand.

People with low levels of agreeableness are seen by others as competitive, colder, tougher and less empathic. They are less likely to look for the best in others, and are not particularly tolerant (an attitude that is much valued by agreeable people). They are less concerned about the emotional state of others, are willing to engage in conflict, and will sacrifice peace and harmony to make a point or (if conscientious) to get things done. People find them straightforward, even blunt. They strongly tend towards dominance rather than submission (particularly if also below average in neuroticism).

People with low levels of agreeableness are not forgiving, accepting, flexible, gentle or patient. They don’t easily feel pity for those who are excluded, punished or defeated. It is also difficult for them to be taken advantage of by disagreeable, manipulative or otherwise troublesome people, or those with criminal or predatory intent. Their skepticism plays a protective role, although it can sometimes interfere with their ability to cooperate with or trust others whose intentions are genuinely good. They also be less likely to reward good behavior or to give credit where it is due. They can cooperate, when cooperation is in their interest, but very much appreciate competition, with its clear losers and winners. They will not easily lose arguments (or avoid discussions) with less agreeable people, and can enjoy the battle. They are generally good at bargaining for themselves, or at negotiating for more recognition or power and are likely to have higher salaries and to earn more money, in consequence. People low in agreeableness are therefore less likely to suffer from resentment or to harbour invisible anger. In addition, because of their tendency to engage in conflict, when necessary, people low in agreeableness people tend not to sacrifice medium- to long-term stability and function for the sake of short-term peace. This means that problems that should be solved in the present are often solved, and do not accumulate counterproductively across time, although people close to those low in agreeableness may experience them as overbearing.

Women are higher in agreeableness than men. The mean percentile for women in a general population (women and men) is 61.5. For men it is 38.5.

I think the primary reason NW European civilization is marked by highly individualistic creativity and intellectual dispute (socket depth) and NE Asian civilization is marked by highly egocentric conformity and intellectual stagnation (shallow sockets). So it would appear the West retained more of the neanderthal personality (T-front) whereas the East retained more of the neanderthal intellect (T-back).

The difference in absolute level of accomplishment between the two civilizations probably just comes down to trust as explained by Schneier. Traditionally, you could trust most Europeans most of the time not to victimize you because they’d feel guilty about it, whereas the Chinese are a deeply deceptive people bound only by shame who riot when they aren’t allowed to cheat on standardized tests because cheating is normal. As Western faces become more neotenous with shallower sockets like Mongoloid faces we are also starting to adopt a more Chinese personality, becoming highly agreeable, emphasizing the value of social harmony and functioning within a larger system, and looking to the state to enforce social norms (like monogamy) rather than proactively engaging in idiosyncratic personal conflicts.

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25 Responses to Deep sockets = Dyadic (binary) thinking + Disagreeableness

  1. Fox says:

    The datapacrat article is rather talking about “left-brained” vs “right-brained” (or “whole-brained”) people. Deepsocks and aspergers have a tendency to become very “left-brained” in some sense (“splitting” as you called it), but I don’t think that being “left-brained” is a specific characteristic of them – exclusive thinking, not seeing the forest (= the point) is the norm, not an exception.
    But still aspergers/deepsocks behave differently if “left-brained” than normies/non-deepsocks.
    A left-brained normie studies feminism, a left-brained aspie mathematics – dumb lower-level exclusive thinking (“it’s the patriarchy!”) vs intelligent higher-level exclusive thinking.

    I think that there are several aspects thrown together that need to be distinguished (now that’s “sperging”).
    Exclusive thinking – typically left-brained
    “Not seeing the forest” – typically left-brained
    “Not seeing the forest for the trees” (ie seeing the trees but (therefore?) not seeing the forest) – typical tendency in deepsocks/aspergers
    “Not seeing the forest but neither seeing the trees” – typical tendency in normies
    “Seeing the forest but not the trees” – non-deepsock M (or T) frontal
    “Seeing the forest and the tress” – deepsock and M (or T) frontal

    In short: Spergs may not see the forest for the trees but normies don’t even see the trees.

    >So it would appear the West retained more of the neanderthal personality (T-front) whereas the East retained more of the neanderthal intellect (T-back).

    The notion of eastasian visual ability (compared to europeans) rests on these points:
    – high “visual iq” (mostly (or wholly?)) high visual reasoning
    – traditional pictogram script – nobody but a people with powerful visual ability would adopt and keep such a script, and be able to use it effectively
    – visual arts – modern (manga) from japan, older artworks

    The associations “T-Back = Visual” and “eastasians have a lot of neanderthal genes” then leads to the conclusion you wrote.

    However, there are some points agains this:
    – eastasian skulls don’t have the typical neanderthal shape at the back, far from it actually (in the whole system we would have to classify the overwhelming majority of them as clear M- or C-backs)
    – cortical folding: “The proportion of the CEU component is associated with protrusion of the occipital and frontal surfaces. Increases in the proportion of the EA component are accompanied by variations in temporal-parietal region”, which is in line with eastasian skulls being rather M-back than T-back, and with germanic europeans having bigger frontals than eastasians, but the latter having “broader” skulls (bigger temporals) than the former. (

    What about the aforementioned visual ability then?
    – high visual reasoning is “visual” in a reductionistic, symbolic, 2D sense
    – pictogram scripts, too, are reductionistic, symbolic, 2D
    – a lot of eastasian art seems to be 2D (example – beautiful chinese artworks showing landscapes), manga is usually 2D and simplefied (draw a face with only a couple of strokes)

    In contrast, there are:
    – iq subtest that test 3D and dynamic visual ability (I don’t know whether eastasians tend to outperform europeans in these two domains)
    – 3d art – sculpture (ancient greek and roman, renaissance italian statues), oil paintings, architecture
    – cinematography

    I would say that germanic europeans have the same or higher level of 3D and dynamic visual ability, but a lower level of 2D static visual ability than eastasians. Also, they’re slower, more easily bored, and probably somewhat weaker with symbols in general.

  2. Fox says:

    Regarding disagreeableness –
    You’re deepish sock and MM low(ish) sock, and you described yourself as very agreeable and him as very disagreeable.
    There are several aspects that contribute to disagreeableness – different people are disagreeable in very different ways. I’m thinking about five different kinds of disagreeableness, and one further aspect (important regarding the strength if it). pm me for more info.

  3. Sock Puppet #737388 says:

    Au contraie. This sock puppet is actually the Man with No Name. The man with the loaded guns and then some. I can even dig the grave for you with an entrenching too. Or maybe to respect what little dignity Blondies have Ill construct a fire burial for them. Lets just say I have dirt on many a blondie. Which means the camo is working. Next step is brown eyed contacts and laser hair removal on the head and the groin area.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      Do I need to call the police?

      • TonyFromDaBronx says:

        Why do you need to call the police for, aeoli? I thought you were a MEGA ALPHA MAN who could handle any situation on your own and don’t need no stinkin’ help from anyone not even the police you can handle any situation you’re such a tough ALPHA SuperMan, Oh you BIG MAN you!

        Look dude, THE BOYS ARE BACK IN TOWN AGAIN. Toughen up or go home to your mommy :

  4. bicebicebcie says:

    “The difference in absolute level of accomplishment between the two civilizations probably just comes down to trust as explained by Schneier.”

    I trust everyone around me to conjure problems out of thin air and destroy Utopia (Swedish Volkensihemmen). We are the new chinese, but the chinese won’t become us.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      Are there any historians seriously looking at the question of WTF happened to Sweden, in particular?

      • bicebicebcie says:

        I could ask you the very same thing, and get the same answer.

        “Are there any historians seriously looking at the question of WTF happened to America, in particular?”. I realized that sounded a little rude but i’m not being that.

        No. Only we are. Loss of standards due to loss of IQ due to dysgenics, the leftoid eugenic program is a dysgenic one with speedantidepressantopiodsandsexhorhmones for 5 year olds, a successful transition meaning another soyboy on the plantation.

        It is the same terminology and same program, but in islam peace means total submission, whereas peace in the west means something different, but the sapes they hear the word “peace” and the rest is, as they say, history.

  5. kensuimo says:

    You forgot to hat tip Trebizond.

    Although you’re probably right about lower Asian socket depth rates, I suspect there’s a racial baseline shift that would render them higher than currently estimated.

  6. bicebicebcie says:

    A.I-enterprise is the new industry. In order to be given a pound of soylent to survive each day, you need to meet your quota of bussdriver simulator passengers. Virtual people have virtual places to go, and everyone is part of the greater good (A.I). Thus, it is vital that they make it there on time. Same thing with digital goods, what google in california already is, a soyboy plantation of goobers willingly taking it up the ass, like chinese communists, but the chinese communist send abroad will be corrupted and return to china and revive the old kingdoms because they don’t want to pay lazy backwater rise farmers gibs to stay alive, the germanic sentiment about southrons basically.

    When you merge with the machine the machine merges with you. It will be soyboys eating soylent-soyboys running digital errands in the west for a while in the current year. Nobody here is talking about a classical manufacturing enterprise. Maybe Trumps steampunk-coalmines can put a wrench in the globalist machine, but cycles seem to run for a reason and are hard stopped.

    Only real life real working with your hands labor real goods industry coming back is when you build your own homestead, or do it like that honorary edenist on youtube who walks the woods semi-naked and never speaks one word.

    I am not joking or making this up for effect. It ends when the current year ends.

  7. Aeoli Pera says:

    >How come soy makes Western men effeminate? The Chinese ingest alot more soy than Westerners do but they don’t seem to be producing namby-pamby effeminate soy boys like the West is.

    It’s a synecdoche.

  8. Heaviside says:

    >But the powers and principalities of this world decided us Americans needed to fight a war a proxy war with China in Vietnam and of course never told us Americans losing the war would mean losing our American industry to China.

    No, they never told you was that you lost WWII to Japan and the consequence of that was losing your industry to Japan in the aftermath of the Treaty of San Francisco.

    What the Vietnam War did do was cause such severe balance of payments problems that the London Gold Pool was almost destroyed in March 1968 and Nixon was forced to announce the end of Bretton Woods on the 26th anniversary of the Jewel Voice Broadcast.

    “Speaking in bold cadences but feeling vulnerable, Nixon and his advisers used a military lexicon to describe the economic assaults on American hegemony. For example, in the spring of 1971, Secretary of Commerce Maurice Stans reportedly declared that “the Japanese are still fighting the war. Their immediate intention is to try to dominate the Pacific and then perhaps the world.” That August, as foreign pressure to redeem dollars for gold reached a climax, Secretary of the Treasury John Connally told Nixon that the government “can’t cover our liabilities – we’re broke; anyone can topple us.” For the first time since the Second World War American global economic interests collided with those of the European allies and Japan. Facing an economic crisis unprecedented since 1945, Nixon described his “New Economic Policy” as an effort to “stick it to the Japanese.””

    Nixon made his rapprochement of China in order to contain Japan.

    “Gyohten Toyoo, a finance ministry official in 1971, recalled that the Nixon shocks and related trade disputes convinced his colleagues that the “Nixon administration was thinking about the possibility of using Communist China as a counterweight to Japan in post-Vietnam Asia.” Despite the difference in styles between Henry Kissinger and John Connally, Gyohten believed the two presidential advisers had achieved a “meeting of the minds” and acted as a tag team to “pull the rug out from under Japan.” Just as the Nixon administration hoped to utilize triangular (United States-China-Soviet Union) diplomacy to influence Soviet behavior, the Americans seemed to be “playing a kind of China card to Japan.” In fact, Nixon had just spoken in these terms to British prime minister Edward Heath. The “Japanese,” he complained, “are all over Asia like a bunch of lice” and fitting them into a post-Vietnam framework posed major obstacles.

    Although LDP faction leaders varied in their responses to the Nixon shocks, nearly all recognized that Sato’s days as prime minister were numbered along with the “San Francisco” system which had defined Japan’s place in the world for two decades.”

    Chinese growth didn’t start until 1978 when Deng went to Tokyo and agreed to accept Japanese technical assistance and investment as part of the Flying Geese Paradigm.

  9. agentorange says:

    East Asians are low in agreeableness. High neuroticism drives their conscientiousness.

    Click to access Schmitt-JCCP-2007.pdf

    • agentorange says:

      pg 27

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      Somehow I doubt Japan is two standard deviations lower than the Congo in conscientiousness.

      • agentorange says:

        how glib!

      • Fox says:

        The study was based on a questionnaire (44 questions to be answered in 20 minutes). Congolese score almost two standard deviations below europeans in iq tests, so even if those tests measure only the ability to undestand some written instructions relatively fast, such scores mean that they didn’t even understand most of the questions.

        Self-reporting (alone) is literally one of the worst tools to assess someone.

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