Elijah lies to Ahab

I present this as evidence that the autistic interpretation of 100% perfect honesty, which admits of no edge cases or gray areas, is not biblical. Hopefully it will put you at ease about my admonition to gaslight your enemies.

This ought to be the canonical example of moral dishonesty, rather than the Anne Frank example.

Now the famine was severe in Samaria, 3 and Ahab had summoned Obadiah, his palace administrator. (Obadiah was a devout believer in the Lord. 4 While Jezebel was killing off the Lord’s prophets, Obadiah had taken a hundred prophets and hidden them in two caves, fifty in each, and had supplied them with food and water.)…

As Obadiah was walking along, Elijah met him. Obadiah recognized him, bowed down to the ground, and said, “Is it really you, my lord Elijah?”

8 “Yes,” he replied. “Go tell your master, ‘Elijah is here.’”

9 “What have I done wrong,” asked Obadiah, “that you are handing your servant over to Ahab to be put to death?…I hid a hundred of the Lord’s prophets in two caves, fifty in each, and supplied them with food and water. 14 And now you tell me to go to my master and say, ‘Elijah is here.’ He will kill me!”

15 Elijah said, “As the Lord Almighty lives, whom I serve, I will surely present myself to Ahab today.”

16 So Obadiah went to meet Ahab and told him, and Ahab went to meet Elijah. 17 When he saw Elijah, he said to him, “Is that you, you troubler of Israel?”…

22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets.”

1 Kings 18

There is no way to interpret this except as a direct lie to protect the one hundred prophets of the Lord which Obadiah had hidden. The account is very clear that these are prophets of the Lord and not prophets of Baal, and nothing has happened to them in the intervening time.

I focus on this not because I’m a compulsive liar myself, rationalizing my desires, but because Christians won’t have an ice cube’s chance in Hell to win a war, whether culture war or conventional war, if we don’t relearn the fundamental principle that you act differently toward friends and foes. This isn’t hard stuff in retrospect but I understand most of us never had to make hard choices growing up. God does not expect us to keep our noses clean in war, he only expects perfect loyalty to him and love shown toward each other, in that order. Those two commands sum up the entire Old Testament, as the man said.

All of war is based on deception. You can cast yourself as a holy warrior of justice and light and truth to feed your ego, or you can fight to win. And let’s be honest, if you think you’re a holy warrior of light you’re still lying, just to yourself. If you aren’t willing to lie to your enemies you aren’t ready to kill them yet.

“Sheep without shepherds” was too kind, if you ask me. Not that he does, which is for the best.

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15 Responses to Elijah lies to Ahab

  1. SirHamster says:

    “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left (who publicly tells you the Lord’s will), but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets.”

    See, even this doesn’t have to be a lie. We autists are just bad at recognizing and concealing unnecessary context.

    “Let me tell you EVERYTHING explicitly. So like, I’m a prophet, and there’s 100 more prophets in hiding who you haven’t killed yet. But anyways, God told me to tell you something right now.”

    Need to hammer KISS and TLDR into the brain. There is pretty much no reason to ever info dump and monologue. It gets in the way of our actual mission and purpose.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      Elijah was not simply leaving things out, he explicitly said something which was the opposite of the truth. The negation of “I am the only one left” is “I am not the only one left”.

      • SirHamster says:

        >Elijah was not simply leaving things out, he explicitly said something which was the opposite of the truth. The negation of “I am the only one left” is “I am not the only one left”.

        Depends on what you mean by “left”.

        Normal conversation does not negotiate the precise meaning of words. That leaves ambiguity in meaning that normies tolerate and accept but the autistic mind does not like.

        Because of that ambiguity, you can rate Elijah’s statement as more like 80% true. The missing 20% is what was unsaid but can be inserted to make the statement 100% true. 0% true would be “there are no prophets of the Lord left”. (But because of the fluidity and multidimensional aspect of communication, trying to use a 1D of 0-100% to measure truth is itself introducing measurement error)

        • Aeoli Pera says:

          There is no ambiguity. You’re being completely disingenuous.

          • SirHamster says:

            Define “left”. Only one possible meaning as used here by Elijah, which must be interpreted as a “direct lie”?

            Left active? (true) Left alive? (false) Willing to stand up and prophesy against the king? (true)

            You said there was no other way to interpret it except as a direct lie. This is a fairly defined alternative to challenge that statement.

            I’d accept it as a lie by omission. (80% true that needs you to fill in some blanks to be 100% true)

            • Aeoli Pera says:

              Let’s play counterfactuals. If I demonstrate that you’re wrong on this point as well as I demonstrated for your previous point (which you abandoned without a second thought) what will it mean to you? What would have to be true for you to be wrong?

          • SirHamster says:

            > Let’s play counterfactuals. If I demonstrate that you’re wrong on this point as well as I demonstrated for your previous point (which you abandoned without a second thought) what will it mean to you? What would have to be true for you to be wrong?

            On abandoning previous point: I don’t recognize which point you think I’ve abandoned.

            What it means:

            If direct lies are a necessary part of Christian life because Elijah is a liar, then my application would be to dedicate a part of my brain to deception, (1. model other’s thinking, 2. identify path to feed false information 3. to create false thinking) to be activated on demand, “for good”.

            Lies by omission are far more passive – “does this person need to know this information or not?”

            Elijah’s statement is true in that he is the only prophet showing up, vs. the 450 prophets for Baal. There’s a difference between speaking truth (to the right level of precision) at all times, to speaking falsehood sometimes because that’s sometimes good.

            What would have to be true for me to be wrong:

            Demonstrate that all of the alternatives I suggested are incompatible with the text. Maybe there’s a precision that I’ve neglected in the original Hebrew – but on a quick glance, if anything it’s more ambiguous.

            http://biblehub.com/text/1_kings/18-22.htm

            • Aeoli Pera says:

              >On abandoning previous point: I don’t recognize which point you think I’ve abandoned.

              Do you understand the difference between omission and ambiguous language?

              >If direct lies are a necessary part of Christian life because Elijah is a liar

              It is only necessary for those fighting a war. I think there’s room in the tent for Christians who are not combatants, provided the combatants can protect them.

              >my application would be to dedicate a part of my brain to deception…

              I hate to be the one to break this to you…

              >Lies by omission are far more passive – “does this person need to know this information or not?”

              You say that like that makes them better.

            • SirHamster says:

              > Do you understand the difference between omission and ambiguous language?

              Omission is providing less detail. Increases ambiguity.

              Ex: Simplify description of “college aged man” to “man”. Omitting the adjective increases ambiguity.

              > You say that like that makes them better.

              It’s less work. (ex: Keeping your story straight when lying)

              But the main thing is whether lying (active deception) is supposed to be a part of a Christian’s life. What with the Father of Lies being someone not to imitate.

              Omission is demonstrated even by God – He doesn’t provide sperg level detail about His business and intentions. He tells us some things and commands trust and faith as we wait for His promises to be fulfilled.

              Lies? God does not lie, though apparently he has servants who will do so.

            • Ø says:

              Lock up a corrupt boxing official for accepting bribes and colluding with the mafia, but don’t send a fighter to jail for feinting during a bout.

            • Ø says:

              Better version: “It is wrong for a boxer to throw a fight, but not to throw a feint.”

    • bicebicebice says:

      “Need to hammer KISS and TLDR into the brain. There is pretty much no reason to ever info dump and monologue. It gets in the way of our actual mission and purpose.”

      K.I.S.S = succor for invaders is not altruism. what that then entails, such as never buying take out, thats like the old “bash the jews yeah yeah do it” “OMG LEAVE THE ANIME OUT OF THIS!!!”. Starve the beast, starve your own degeneracy. Que endless back and forth about “some are alright” and “if you do it once in a whilte its no biggie”.

      TLDR= sapes and jews, always, that ties right into the K.I.S.S. It is that simple which is why it is hard because people have to confront their own sins and with fedora tipping and pagan larping running wild… and moste christians being krisshians. Well yea, welcome to another info dump and monologue.

      Apparently ” be good” is open to intepretation which is why the bible isn’t just one chapter or even one long sentence, i presume to assume.

  2. Pingback: You did ask | Aeoli Pera

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