Communicating with ENTPs (and INTPs)

The ENTP communication style can be difficult for an INTJ to appreciate. That’s because of the way ENTPs (and owl melons particularly) interact with inarticulated understanding. Rather than thinking to themselves “I need to split my forces into a pincer attack” they’ll daydream briefly about water in a river breaking around a rock and coming back together. Without knowing precisely why this is the correct principle to apply in the particular context, they’ll follow it.

That’s why their external life is something like a waking dream state. The appropriate principles simply appear as these intuitive daydreams in an actionable form, and most of the time they don’t bother to articulate the principle. That’s because it’s already in an actionable form, and they don’t (typically) have a strong extraverted thinking function so when they socialize they’re going to talk about the vision of the water parting around the rock. (That is, extraverted intuition is both their socializing function and their acting-in-the-world function.)

Intuitions don’t describe the general principle, they describe highly representative special cases and illustrative metaphors. So rather than saying “fascism is the correct organizing principle for a submarine crew but not for a college campus” (how an INTJ would say it) an ENTP will say something like “I have a good idea, let’s unleash a pack of wolves in the library” and laugh to himself about how the silliness of this picture perfectly illustrates the silliness of overgeneralizing principles of organization. I ran into this with Patrick on Saturday, when he was effectively saying “we need to invent the autonomous turrets with the eugenic correction factor” and I started sperging out about the implementation. Then he explained we weren’t talking about literal turrets and we had a bro moment.

What we’ve proved here is that communication between the types is possible so long as the ENTP is patient with the INTJ taking a moment to translate everything from particulars into generals, and then back to particulars. That is, the particulars which actually pertain to the situation at hand, which have nothing to do with water going around a rock and everything to do with the logistics of getting two large masses of normies with no future orientation or agency to form a pincer attack. In turn, INTJs must be patient with the inability of ENTPs to give a straight answer to a question like “which color flag is the signal for attack”. (“No great Buddha, I actually need an answer for this one.”)

Despite my optimism here, these conversations can descend into contempt very easily if either individual demands it be held in their first language (which is a human stress response). The dominant partner ought to shoot for a 2:1 ratio of communication styles and prefer patience over contempt while the inferior partner is restating the messages in their own words. They are translating out loud and this is a necessary step in achieving the clarity of common purpose which is necessary for any collaboration.

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17 Responses to Communicating with ENTPs (and INTPs)

  1. Obediah says:

    I believe Ne is an adaptation to a larger group-size whose purpose is to understand how the external environment works for the betterment of the in-group

    It is very empirical and non-counterfactual (The fine-details of your “overwatch theory” are quite lacking in explanatory power wrt how society akshually works and is mainly valuable in its general underlying principle, which is very true [world is run by Satan]. This has to do with the doggerland anglo-nobilid phenotype not understanding soft power and influence and sheeit [if you did all the Jews would be dead].)

    Ni is a small tribe wise-man, Ne is a large tribe scouting-unit

    (Again, I think Ne is mainly a frontal lobe thing:

    https://aeolipera.wordpress.com/2017/07/03/speculations-on-higher-functions-in-koanics-mohawk/#comment-22016)

  2. Obediah says:

    Ni will remind everyone that it is possible to have right and wrong feelings, and will do so even if he has to do it completely by himself

    Ne will comprehend the details of how the process of forgetting (that is, being made to forget) our left-and-right actually happened and hopefully explain it

  3. Obediah says:

    Sometimes you get people with dominant Ne but without strong reinforcement of the secondary rational function and this gives you Filthy Frank/Sam Hydeberg

    I have a lot to say on this but I’m typing on an iPad atm

  4. Obediah says:

    Also not saying overwatch theory doesn’t have explanatory power, just saying it’s missing entire dimensions of influence like entertainment, academia etc and how these affect people’s minds

  5. Ø says:

    Anyway, hopefully this is a good exercise in communication. Probably not.

  6. Ø says:

    I’m just dumping vaguely-related ideas I have about the topic out in accordance with the Ne biological adaptation.

  7. Ø says:

    >if you did all the Jews would be dead

    Maybe not dead but probably imprisoned, #pogromed or otherwise checked somehow

  8. bicebicebice says:

    “They are translating out loud and this is a necessary step in achieving the clarity of common purpose which is necessary for any collaboration.” Yeah I hate this too, common ground is “they do the same thing you do inside the head but outside”.
    I believe we mistake this for normiery, namley “mafuhggins” “banana” “banana” “kfc” *draws pistol*.

    Whats wrong with a good old “Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm”.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      >Yeah I hate this too

      I was thinking of you when I wrote this. Your level of sheer xNTPness suggests to me that you gave up communicating with people a long time ago and haven’t quite managed to remember how yet.

  9. Obediah says:

    I need to actually read the OP post here in a little bit, rather than doing skim-and-shitpost as is my wont.

  10. Boneflour says:

    Look man if you speak Bice he makes perfect sense.

  11. bicebicebice says:

    Aeoli Pera says:
    October 24, 2018 at 7:33 pm
    >Yeah I hate this too

    I was thinking of you when I wrote this. Your level of sheer xNTPness suggests to me that you gave up communicating with people a long time ago and haven’t quite managed to remember how yet.

    Itz just that these types drain your energy even if they are /yourguy/, autistic wi-fi does not. As you say, 2:1, you are talking to them but hear them twice and getting talked to twice. This is not virtuous domination of a situation, they are just retarded that way, this is of course impressive to a sape “man make many talk”, being stimuli animals. This is why obongo won two american elections by going IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF. But I am proud to say that it gets on my nerves, and the benefit you know what you are dealing with. Of course you have to be a professional when dealing with this and see it is a character flaw (they see it as a strength and objectively when it comes to sapes it actually is). Epic ethnic comedy mismatch.

    Good thing is that these types wants something already in advance, and you get tired twice or thrice as fast, meaning it ends and possibly with a something has happened. With a (maxed) INT-spergathin, thats 10 hours you just talked/chatted/skyped/meme/gamed away. This is why I don’t do this, and in political sense you don’t need to, it is better to have extroverted types influnced by introverted autism, which is why American politics is the only thing that matters even more these days than previously before. I am a certified expert in people.

    Welcome to Deus Ex 3; Human Resources.

  12. Will says:

    This describes me pretty accurately. Nascent thoughts usually appear in the form of a vivid impression after progressing from something which is somehow pre-visual and pre-verbal. From then on it gets more realized given I decide to put the effort in to describe what’s going on. What sucks is that my thoughts in their natural form are esoteric and removed to the point where I struggle to translate them. Probably because I’m not skilled enough with language to quickly identify and classify the moving parts of what I’m thinking, the density of information I’m trying to communicate is too much to describe in any reasonable amount of time without using metaphors. I’m probably soft in that area because my ‘talking to people operation’ is used to staying in the realm of day-to-day banalities and rarely reaches up to the more complicated train of thought I have running all the time because the average person I talk to wouldn’t get it. When I do talk, its usually mixed up and out-of-order because the thought itself was a glimpse which I saw all-at-once, Heptapod B style, and so a sequence of ‘ergo’s is something I have to artificially create. Writing is especially frustrating not only because of it’s imposed sequential nature but also the fact that I’m just doing my best to glean what I can from a rapidly disintegrating thought I had 5 minutes ago.
    The post is enlightening in another way, because my metaphors never really worked on the girl I’m into. Though she has a big parietal, so I’m not sure why they wouldn’t. Maybe there’s an occ under the ponytail making things more complicated.
    I myself have a head that looks like a starship, with lumps in pretty much every area you guys deem significant. Thank God for hair.

  13. Pingback: Example of owl melon fate sense | Aeoli Pera

  14. Pingback: Example ENTP-INTJ conversation in Cycle of Arawn | Aeoli Pera

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