Kensuimo has been working on this theory for quite a while, and we had a bit of a breakthrough yesterday. The trait which deep sockets predict most strongly is disagreeableness (with introversion a close second), and downward nose predicts disagreeableness and antisocial/psychopathic in about equal measures. Are they predicting the same kind? I think the answer is no, and we can use the difference in my Big 5 scores and my Hexaco scores to distinguish because I have both deep sockets and upward nose.
Upward nose would then predict agreeableness as defined by Hexaco:
Agreeableness (versus Anger): Persons with very high scores on the Agreeableness scale forgive the wrongs that they suffered, are lenient in judging others, are willing to compromise and cooperate with others, and can easily control their temper. Conversely, persons with very low scores on this scale hold grudges against those who have harmed them, are rather critical of others’ shortcomings, are stubborn in defending their point of view, and feel anger readily in response to mistreatment.
The Forgivingness scale assesses one’s willingness to feel trust and liking toward those who may have caused one harm. Low scorers tend “hold a grudge” against those who have offended them, whereas high scorers are usually ready to trust others again and to re-establish friendly relations after having been treated badly.
The Gentleness scale assesses a tendency to be mild and lenient in dealings with other people. Low scorers tend to be critical in their evaluations of others, whereas high scorers are reluctant to judge others harshly.
The Flexibility scale assesses one’s willingness to compromise and cooperate with others. Low scorers are seen as stubborn and are willing to argue, whereas high scorers avoid arguments and accommodate others’ suggestions, even when these may be unreasonable.
The Patience scale assesses a tendency to remain calm rather than to become angry. Low scorers tend to lose their tempers quickly, whereas high scorers have a high threshold for feeling or expressing anger.
Deep sockets would predict disagreeableness as defined by the Big 5:
The distinguishing factors, at first glance, are directness vs. vindictiveness. Deep sockets predict directness and downward nose predicts vindictiveness. People with upward nose and socket depth therefore tend to be blunt but accommodating, whereas people with downward nose and shallow sockets tend to be indirect and always in pursuit of vengeance (presumably they would prefer to call it justice). Both deep sockets and downward nose would predict someone who’s openly predatory (presumably also they would appeal to justice but be very open about this being merely a formality). Since downward nose is concerned with holding a grudge about all perceived slights, no matter how small, and punishing them, we would expect it to correlate with psychopathy and narcissistic personality. When coupled with shallow sockets, we would expect it to correlate with Machiavellianism as well.
‘whereas people with downward nose and shallow sockets tend to be indirect and always in pursuit of vengeance (presumably they would prefer to call it justice).’
I’d argue it’s Sigma as well, except Sigma is also deep socket and Machiavellian.
Oh hang on, what I meant to say is deep sockets would not have the Machiavellian dimension, but rather would be direct. We’d expect Gammas to tend to be indirect and Machiavellian and have shallow sockets.
My external affect tells white lies to get along with others, but my internal affect would rather die than bend.
Iron hand, velvet glove. Perfect frame, compromising in practice.
Versus autism: Iron hand, iron glove.
That is the way of the MT/Ritter.
>Agreeableness is a very complex trait
That’s because, unlike Cooijman’s triad or the other Big 5 traits, it’s like a Jungian function or Edenic craniology profile, with distinct “internal/inner” and “external/outer” divisions.
I disagree with the premise that it’s very complex. It’s the most amenable to basic conflict theory.
>Since downward nose is concerned with holding a grudge about all perceived slights, no matter how small, and punishing them, we would expect it to correlate with psychopathy and narcissistic personality. When coupled with shallow sockets, we would expect it to correlate with Machiavellianism as well.
Gosh, you two have nailed it.
I wonder if there is a way for someone with absolute power (shallow sockets and downward nose too) to turn from the narcissism and punishment and psychopathy? If there are absolutely no limits to their level of power, could they ever be persuaded to not cause misery to billions, just to satisfy their ego?
Do these kinds have allegiance to those who submit to their whims I wonder? Can they be trusted at all?
Psychopaths are pretty well understood at this point. So basically no, with the exception of those few self-aware psychos who understand it’s in their best interest, eternally speaking, to be moral: https://aeolipera.wordpress.com/2019/05/21/a-theory-for-how-religion-produces-societal-trust-group-morality-as-infinite-iterated-prisoners-dilemma/
Aeoli that would be me would it not?