There are a lot of interesting things about it, but probably the most important is that it’s a response to watching people delude themselves.
Where as an autistic person I’ve traditionally seen people deluding themselves to protect their conceits and sperged out, I now have a side of me that sees this and thinks “I could tell this person what they want to hear for money.”
I first noticed this when I had a sudden, intense desire to self-publish an e-book arguing that Hitler had an IQ of 185.
It’s a political area that’s ripe for the taking, because reasons. But mostly it was a desire to prove something wrong via performative dialectic.
That was the key difference in motivation.
It’s like that old medieval bit of proving your point “on the opponent’s body”.
In fact, I’d describe it as a logical consequence of adopting a pragmatic, consequentialist ethic.
Once you accept that people generally deserve what they get, you fall immediately into this psychopathic mode.
And if you accept, as I do, that people learn best from a good spanking, it’s downright merciful to teach them at the mere cost of a few dollars.
Mix that with the realization that there’s no money in honest work (which is true, and the reason I’m not pursuing a trade), and you’ve got a recipe for a grifter.
Turn that grift into a system and poof, you’re a rent-seeker.
of course, you see how they need to learn that lesson from the experience
many use this excuse but few ever follow through on the teaching part
then, of course, the fault is on the poor students for not learning
remember, psychopath logic is that everything is always the victims fault
still, good for you to get a visceral sense of how this works
it’s funny how this sort of thing is a bit like maturity
hard-earned lessons from facing the ugly truths of the world that you have to experience and grow into, that you can’t learn from a book
i was wrestling with this similarity when you first started talking but i think the distinction is that psychopathic pragmatism is a viewpoint about external circumstances born from hard lessons and “maturity” is a viewpoint of internal states (who you are, how you act, what your values are)
maturity, of course, also encompasses not acting foolishly, and that’s the kicker that means that this isn’t a clean distinction, of course
none of that was meant as an admonishment or a dissuasion, by the way. it was more a tangential line of thinking
Oh I know, no worries there.
I think the psychopathic morality sneaks in with the just world fallacy.
But there’s a sneaky bit where you don’t really believe it, because the just world fallacy implies a fatalism which mediates against this “teaching” strategy.
I remember Vox wrestling with this back when he was purity-spiraling. He was trying to come up with a term for “untruths that lead the audience to the truth”.
^pithy response but parables would be a subset of this category
Right, any kind of good fiction. That’s what I suggested at the time. Vox was going for something that would allow him to be a pure soldier of light but also “nuanced”.
This was back when he’d decided that Joe Rogan was a pedophile because he misrepresented himself as taller than he is.
Anyway, I’d like to dwell a bit longer on how this is a predatory reaction to seeing delusion in others.
Rather than seeing group weakness, one sees an opportunity to play the Game, for all intents and purposes.
And you’re right, it’s good that I’m developing a concrete sense for this. “It takes a thief”.
But man, the logic in combination with the desire can be pretty tempting at moments.
I think it becomes a lot easier to understand these things after you’ve black pilled on the normies. It begins with the recognition that they want desperately to be lied to.
And, after accepting that there’s something to be said for pragmatism and consequentialism, “better if I lead them than someone worse”.
The deeper I get into this, the more I appreciate my early recognition that lying to people follows the same rules as doing territorial violence to them (more concretely: basically the same rules as when you use weapons on people). You really don’t want to fall into the trap of using lies to correct behavior, even if that’s what they want.
It’s absolutely essential for melonheads to remember that lies always weaken people. Sometimes that’s what you want, as in a war, but you’re never doing people a favor by deceiving them.
It might seem that way in the short term because it reifies strength and unity, but it’s a trap. The debts never get paid later.
Melonheads like to look at noble lies as being like debt-driven economics, where you want to set interest rates at some optimum level.
It’s hubris and deep down they know it.
So it goes back to my old line that you shouldn’t deceive your own people and you especially shouldn’t believe your own bullshit. That’s self-sabotage.
The purpose of lying, like war (or self-defense with a firearm), is to break people so they won’t rise against you again.
These are not teaching and rehabilitation tools. They are threat-removing tools.
And of course it’s necessary to engage in some play-fighting, like lion cubs, so you’re able to engage in real war as an adult. [Ed: Don’t play with firearms. Or maybe you should, but don’t mention this blog.]
So I’m not going to come down like a ton of bricks on buddies playfully lying to each other over a card game.
That just about covers the topic for me.
“Melonheads like to look at noble lies as being like debt-driven economics, where you want to set interest rates at some optimum level”
Never a good sign when “lie to people to get them to do what you want” is viewed as the apex of political philosophy
The Noble Lie isn’t really a concept you should leave lying around for any halfwit to grab onto
As an add-on, I’ll point out that if the debts ever ended up getting paid, it would sometimes be a good thing, as society could extirpate the accumulated falsehoods and rebuild
Not sure this ever happens historically though…
And I’m here to tell you it can’t.
It comes from the observation that normies will ONLY follow liars.
And as you feed them lies, their appetite grows.
So there’s no point where you can have built up the social capital to go back and correct the record.
It’s like Larry Boy and the Big Fib prophesied.
So on the one hand, there’s a black pill in recognizing that normies will follow whoever takes the bait to reify their delusions.
On the other hand, there’s a white pill in recognizing that telling the truth is a lot like sowing seeds.
And gardening is very appealing to melonheads.
There’s a lot of juicy metaphor in it that feels like racial memories.
That one might depend on personality type, but it’s definitely one of the tickets in the personality raffle
It’s satisfying the cultivate and grow something and enjoy the (sometimes literal) fruits of your labor
I can see how people can get really into horse breeding, for instance
Addendum: Shilling can be understood as the desire to grift mixed with the risk aversion that drives people to prefer stable day jobs with benefits. You still get to tell people what they want to hear for money, mostly (usually the narrative is more tailored to your boss than your customers), but without the thrills and chills of sales and entrepreneurship.