“Alone” as a potential source of case studies for measuring moral courage

It’s not obviously a good measure, but I have a strong feeling that it would be a good measure and I’d like to talk myself through it. If you’re not familiar,

Alone is an American adventure reality game show on History. It follows the self-documented daily struggles of 10 individuals (seven paired teams in season 4) as they survive alone in the wilderness for as long as possible using a limited amount of survival equipment.

wiki

At first glance the participants’ success or failure is a measurement of their survival skills like fishing and building. After watching a couple of seasons, you realize that’s just stage 1 and stages 2 through 5 are all about the mental game. You watch person after person go through the exact same mental gymnastics to convince themselves to quit and end the misery: “My family needs me”, “I think I proved what I came here to prove”, and on and on. It’s a combination of hilarious and depressing how consistent the narratives are, which is a good sign if you’re a social scientist. And seeing as the guy putting on the show is “former” special operations (just like all those “former” intelligence people in the media), there’s a better than zero chance it was conceived as a self-funding experiment to test their psychological profiling theories.

You could make a case that suffering hunger and loneliness is an expression of physical courage not unlike the courage of a firefighter. I think what sticks out to me as the key difference which makes it a measure of moral courage specifically is the absence of external moral reinforcement. The solitude removes all social feedback, so you have no culture to conform to, no one to impress, and no particular goal to aim for. Even a political prisoner engaging in a hunger strike is measuring his success by his impact on the lives of other people. But if a man starving on a deserted island talks himself into suicide and no one’s around to care…it’s hard to call that a failure of physical courage.

Therefore, you’d have to throw out everything after season 3 when they introduce paired teams.

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8 Responses to “Alone” as a potential source of case studies for measuring moral courage

  1. Zeb Zebley says:

    reply: dank poast, mein Windeführer.

    side question: iyo, what motivates people to go on tv shows like this, what role does narcissism play, and how much does it really help glowies in their predictive profiling?

    hypothesis: given your WINNARZ post a few days ago, this feels like a crom feature, not a bug. something to get them to return to base for more current marching orders. internally sustained moral fortitude is for thards.

    tangential anecdote: during a recent family dinner/ intervention to dissuade me from my struggling solo business venture, my mother literally said the words “I think you’ve proven everything you wanted to prove”, a thought that I’d never had about anything at any time, least of all my business.

    further question: could stubbornness be correlated with moral courage, either as a mask, a byproduct, or a cheap sleight-of-hand mimicry?

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      >iyo, what motivates people to go on tv shows like this

      Insofar as this reality TV show is real (and other disclaimers), their stated reasons are generally:
      – The money (often they’re quite poor)
      – Wanting to test their mental limits
      – The simple enjoyment of survival/nature/solitude as a hobby/profession
      – Wanting to test their skills
      – Wanting to improve their skills
      – Wanting to win

      There’s probably a couple of other obvious factors like wanting to be on TV and wanting a paid vacation doing something they love.

      >what role does narcissism play

      Bigly. The winners are characterized by the opposite.

      >how much does it really help glowies in their predictive profiling?

      This is a big question, and it requires the ability to simulate the entire hidden world in your head, basically. I’ll speculate as I can using torture research like the CIA black sites in Eastern Europe as an example.

      A lot of what passes for intelligence agency “research” in the area of torture is just sadistic psychopaths gaining experience doing what they do. There’s enough value in experience alone that they’re going to be better at predicting outcomes than the average person who has only a passing familiarity with breaking other people’s minds. But there’s also a limit on the predictive value of tribal tradecraft knowledge versus proper systematic study, and part of the definition of psychopathy is that they get bored easily and are incapable of systematizing. Therefore, I predict they often don’t get much value from their “research” other than the thrill of doing/observing it.

      Naturally, this is going to fall on a distribution where some are better and some are worse. For all we know there’s a contingent of red-pilled dissident torture researchers who are being shunned for telling the truth about how to do it effectively because it offends entrenched interests. Insofar as this bleeds over into reality TV land (e.g. Fear Factor), I expect the reasoning gets much messier, will be less competent as far as analytical study goes, and will be motivated more by rationalizing its own existence. For example, introducing teams makes Alone more interesting for the audience but basically useless for profiling because the sample sizes for both things get cut in half.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      >tangential anecdote: during a recent family dinner/ intervention to dissuade me from my struggling solo business venture, my mother literally said the words “I think you’ve proven everything you wanted to prove”, a thought that I’d never had about anything at any time, least of all my business.

      These are the some of the most clarifying moments in life. Treasure them.

      >further question: could stubbornness be correlated with moral courage, either as a mask, a byproduct, or a cheap sleight-of-hand mimicry?

      At a glance, we can at least say that the absence of moral courage looks like the opposite of stubbornness except for some subtraits like “stubbornly resisting the call of one’s own conscience”. On the whole I’d expect a medium-weak positive correlation.

  2. bicebicebice says:

    “The solitude removes all social feedback, so you have no culture to conform to, no one to impress, and no particular goal to aim for.”

    Orangutans are semi-solitary in the wild (unlike other higher primates). Once they reach maturity, they spend most of their time alone, or, in the case of females, with their immature offspring. Adult males old enough to have cheekpads are the most solitary, spending over 90 per cent of their time alone.24 jan. 2020

    Why are orangutans alone?
    By traveling alone, orangutans do not have to share food and therefore experience less pressure than a group of primates when the season means less food is available. Despite the lack of support from a social group, orangutans prove time and time again that they are incredibly self-sufficient.22 okt. 2020

    Do orangutans like to be alone?
    Unlike other apes who have very strong social bonds, orangutans are considered semi-social. While they do hang out with other orangutans, they like to live alone for the most part.16 juni 2016

    Why are male orangutans solitary?
    Males are however intolerant of each other and remain separated as much as possible when traveling in the same area. Adult male orangutans develop a home range that consists of as many sexually responsive females as possible.

    …WAIT FOR IT!!!

    “are orangutans going extinct”
    About 224 000 results (0,64 seconds)
    Orangutans/Extinction status
    Not extinct

    … so you see, maybe there is hope for the neanderblerghsperg as a sub-species/sub-race, being infatuated with ancient Greece/Rome/Sparta/Athens all that good shit is very pubertal but that do been built by grown ass men and real men and women lived through those times history doesn’t differ much from a fantasy setting imo one could say all this “nonsense” of the before times peaked-by going extinct in the victorian era having been relegated to books for faggots, mankind grew up, then the jews came and we regressed.
    However, people get very upset about returning to this era, telling them to reconnect with nature instead like the amish boy dey mad but it all pales to mentioning the alternative of spacefaring fully-automatedAI-luxury-communism!thats when they start to block you unironically.

    moral courage is living till the end of your days as God intended no matter the circumstances, made me think about those children who are abducted and live in a cellar somewhere for 15-20 years until they are randomly freed one day and if anyone wants to argue “well itz normal for them to think that life is supposed to be that way so thats why they didnt off themselves” then we’re reaching levels of NPC that shouldn’t even exist and hey looks like another win for Edenism.
    Telling off some asshole harassing a lady or running after a mugger isnt moral courage, more like decency and civil hmmmm I-forgot-the-word for it, moral courage should always be a major thing not a minor thing thats just cheap.

    “WHAT ISNT MORAL COURAGE”
    x y and z etc etc

    • Zeb Zebley says:

      >“The solitude removes all social feedback, so you have no culture to conform to, no one to impress, and no particular goal to aim for.”

      [insert myopic Dopamine pathway rant here]

      >Why are orangutans alone?
      By traveling alone, orangutans do not have to share food and therefore experience less pressure than a group of primates when the season means less food is available. Despite the lack of support from a social group, orangutans prove time and time again that they are incredibly self-sufficient.22 okt. 2020

      We wuz Glacier-angutans

      >However, people get very upset about returning to this era, telling them to reconnect with nature instead like the amish boy dey mad but it all pales to mentioning the alternative of spacefaring fully-automatedAI-luxury-communism!thats when they start to block you unironically.

      that, and treestumping makes you liable to be droned by a black playing “the most dangerous game” on a chinese computer that they stole from yt.

      >moral courage is living till the end of your days as God intended no matter the circumstances, made me think about those children who are abducted and live in a cellar somewhere for 15-20 years until they are randomly freed one day and if anyone wants to argue “well itz normal for them to think that life is supposed to be that way so thats why they didnt off themselves” then we’re reaching levels of NPC that shouldn’t even exist and hey looks like another win for Edenism.

      in order to get the life drive booted, apply eustress until refusal. in order to fuel the death drive, give bread and circuses until someone decides to call it a night. fighting though pain is like 90% of meaning.

      >Telling off some asshole harassing a lady or running after a mugger isnt moral courage, more like decency and civil hmmmm I-forgot-the-word for it, moral courage should always be a major thing not a minor thing thats just cheap.

      there’s definitely a supply and demand at play here. even your examples are getting more expensive by the day. is there a floor to what constitues courage, or can it become microscopically regressive and fractal, seeing as it’s a spiritual/ philosophical condition? I think the latter, he who is faithful with little is faithful with much.

      >“WHAT ISNT MORAL COURAGE”
      any action, no matter how great, that doesn’t descend purely from self-costing idealism.

      • bicebicebice says:

        “If you’re going through hell keep on going” vs what they actually don’t tell you; – I’m sorry, looks like you actually have to LIVE IN HELL for xx years, again we are very sorry”

        … so you see, sapes can suffer through anything if there is a social reward (we are 8 billion people living in a world with no morals, cannibals have positive social reinforcement”, but if the reward is just surviving I think you need to be tharded! <— both come off as miserable, accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior today.

        "just change your attitude and don't think about it irregardless of which camp you are in"…

        https://metro.co.uk/2022/05/27/gene-editing-turns-fluffy-hamsters-into-aggressive-rage-monsters-16721041/ – nasal sprays for Hamsters, og ITZ lore.

        If you look at any fictional setting or story, the bad guys and the good guys are never content with leaving each other alone, it never happened doesn't matter if we talking star wars or harry potter, but the cannibals of papa new guinea never mounted an expidition to conquer the eskimos and vice versa it never happened and will never happen.
        Primitive people don't wage wars of conquest, the amish will never try to conquer the goat herders of tora bora, you will probably be expelled for even suggesting such a venture, doesn't matter if they are equipped with drones or spears the intent is never there.

        When I think about it, social rewards like a public civic ceremony for some random moral act of courage (here is your (((medal))) ) is just a cop-out for not expelling the jews, sort of like why FAILED SOCIETYS even have police prisons and courts in the first place whereas the heckin cannibals Don't. Now that's some crazy.

        If you live in society you can't have morals because its not a courageous act. "well I don't pimp children fuck you on about bice"..do you pay taxes to the pimps?you do be doin that tho

        come home white man

        the only strange thing right now to examine socially is WHY THERE ISN'T AN EXODUS because if you look at history people did nothing but, historically and the least surprising thing would actually be if 500 million white men walk off the planet tomorrow and thats not a far off larp

  3. Pingback: John Tyndall excerpt as possible case study in moral courage | Aeoli Pera

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