Owl convo re: Slavs, physiognomy

What’s going on in Ukraine these days Mr. Domain Expert? [NB: This was back in May.]

much the same, from the look of it
nothing big happening, just a slow war of attritionw

Which side does that favor?

I guess that depends on how much weight people put on the fighting/surrenders around Mariupol
in the long run, attrition favors russia
tactically/operationally at least

As far as the weighting goes, probably only someone in Ukraine could say. Morale is funny that way.

strategically/grand strategically is something of a more complicted debate

A lot of people who knew this was coming were still surprised by Ukrainian nationalism.

agreed. i don’t think anybody expected such sustained resistance

I think we’d see something similar if the US were attacked. Morale is very low on the right but you’d see a huge resurgence of patriotism.
Defensive wars are nice and simple in moral terms, very appealing to the conservative mind.
Anyway, it’s hard for outsiders to say how Ukrainians see Azov fighters.
Martyrs?

i think i agree. i’m not sure it would get to post 9/11 levels but we’d dsee it
no idea how ukrainians see things

I also don’t have any concept of the Ukrainian national character. Just from looking at them, they look like halfway between slavs, Finns, and Scandinavians.
Very blocky looking heads.
And on top of that their recent history is decades of being a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Put all those things together and it’s pretty alien to me.

agreed

Best I could do is look up their Big 5 and IQ.
Oh hang on, I forgot big 5 doesn’t work across borders.

culturally/civilizationally i think we clump them in with slavs in general
still not a group i have a good pulse on
beleive their IQ generally tracks with poland/russia

Slavs who look like Danes.
If I had to guess, I’d guess race has a stronger pull than phrenology, so maybe figure Slavs somewhat shifted toward Danes.
Who grew up in, essentially, the world of Berserk.
Or Elden Ring, as I understand it.
Ken tells me that the Witcher series does a good job of conveying Slavic pessimism.

noted

I’d throw fatalism in there also, which is what distinguishes Slavic pessimism from Scandinavian pessimism.
I’m more at home in the Scandinavian version with its will-to-power exception clause.
I.e. Fate is absolute unless you’re Guts.
The Slavic version makes the whole Austro-Hungarian empire thing make more sense.
“We will fight, and we will die.”
“Could we try to win though?”
“What are you, a special snowflake?”

i once read a twitter thread on the differences between east euros and west euros
key takeaways: east euro men less neotonous, tend to be more barrel-chested, thicker necks, bracycephalic
the comparison was very much like to dogs like pit bulls
makes me wonder if te proper scientific racists would have predicted such a vehement response to territorial enroachment

The brachycephalism is surprising, IIRC Coon associates that with population density.
Speaking of, where have the proper racists been on this subject?

the sex dimorphism fascinates me the most
the men definitely tend to be thick around the wrists and ankles and look like orcs and the women really do look waifish

East Euros have lower dimorphism than West Euros, so is this an accident of circumstance?

it’s probably somewhat of a focus on the extremes of the range, especially in the case of the women

(It’s also possible that West Euros have become much less so due to recent massive dysgenics and R-selection.)

the men really do look distinct from west euros though

Yeah, and I’m not disputing the body type. All the heaviest lifters are East Euros.
The only way I can imagine squaring the circle is if East Euro women are gay men with bipolar.

that’s not been my experience but i’m no expert

That and East Euros in general are maybe 400 years behind West Euros in terms of Holocene-style evolution.
This isn’t making a lot of sense when I put it in words…let me try again.
East Euros are more archaic.
So think medieval peasants.
Circa 1200.

what makes you say that?

I’m thinking in terms of physiognomy.
The men are squatter, less neotenous.
The women have some mental masculinization due to poverty (they grow up expecting to support themselves).
I.e. Western women grow up thinking about what they want to be, Eastern women grow up thinking about the hustle.
But there’s also the mental femininization in both sexes with respect to schizo and BPD.
I’d guess autism is very low in Russia.
If you’re expecting a Russian philosopher to get to the point, you’re going to be mistaken.
This also puts me in mind of a medieval peasant because they didn’t draw hard lines between things like we do.
“Scientific spectacles” when you’re talking about the Flynn effect, except here it’s more temperament than education.

gotcha

Yeah, that took a minute to make it comprehensible.
Did I mention the Coon vs. Vaught idea?
Doesn’t look like it.
A good but tedious project would be to look at racial skull dimensions and make predictions of national stereotypes based on Vaught and similar.

A simple way to start this off would be with somatotype (via Sheldon’s “Varieties of Temperament”).
I can already see it failing in my head because endomorphs are supposed to be high GFP (cheerful, open-minded extraverts) and that doesn’t describe Slavs at all.
Hmm…there’s a class confound.
Endomorphs tend to be low class.
Low class people tend to be low GFP.
Ectomorphs tend to be high class.
And high class people tend to be high GFP, even if we account for the downward trend above upper middle class.
(E.g. The highest class people swear more than the upper middle class but they still swear less than the lower class.)

About Aeoli Pera

Maybe do this later?
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1 Response to Owl convo re: Slavs, physiognomy

  1. aiaslives says:

    > ectomorph, endomorph
    Just look at their skulls.
    No outward tapering = not middle class.
    plain, no taper = upper / high class. Non-degenerate cheekbones (both degenerate and non-degenerate cheekbones can be large).
    small cone = peasant

    This cycles from L->R (high -> peasant) as civilization progresses

    Also, what’s your exact definition of GFP?

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