The West is dead, and God has killed it

Sexual degeneracy follows necessarily from individualism because the mythos of individualism requires an ethos of mutual tolerance to exist. Morality, as a concept, is restricted to relationships between people. In the absence of God there is no transcendent moral law, and in the absence of other people there is no civic duty or social contract (at best, a man on an island judge how best to treat himself, but even this implies a relationship with himself). Without any moral authority to redirect the excesses of the human libido, the raw id is unleashed. Moral permissiveness returns a society to its natural baseline more assuredly than an atomic bomb.

hiroshima-years-after-the-nuke-detroit-after-years-of-liberal-27986825

Without God, there is no Christendom, and without Christendom there is no West. There are only the European peoples and the Greco-Roman legacy, and I’m not hopeful for the latter when spell-check recognizes neither “Greco-Roman” nor “contrapositive”. Individualism is autism without God, and the American culture’s prescription to “pulling yourself up by the bootstraps”, a call to self-creation (i.e. the self-made man), is literal Luciferianism.

Self-authoring-program

(Image taken from Jordan Peterson’s Self-Authoring Program. “Self-authoring”, hmm…)

Here’s a radical alternative to American exceptionalism: “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

During our Discord discussion this weekend, I was pressing someone on his reason for emotional divestment from the church, and he said it was because “fuck the church”. Upon probing, he said he didn’t mean God’s church but modern churches with tares among the wheat. I challenged him to contact me when he’d purity-spiraled his way to a church containing no one but believers with sound doctrine, but not to look for models in the New Testament because the early churches were deeply flawed. I have been shocked to learn that even praying for the brethren is too much to ask from some other people.

Repent in sackcloth and ashes, wretches! Maybe, like the city of Ninevah, God will hear us. Maybe he will not, and our lampstand has been removed forever. But I can assure you with perfect clarity, not even one of you who refuses the call to prayer and fasting is destined for the kingdom of heaven.

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About Aeoli Pera

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59 Responses to The West is dead, and God has killed it

  1. SirHamster says:

    > Upon probing, he said he didn’t mean God’s church but modern churches with tares among the wheat.

    It’s like SJWs “loving people” and hating every individual they encounter. If you are not actively loving *a* church, you do not love God’s church. Spare us the lip service.

    > Repent in sackcloth and ashes, wretches! Maybe, like the city of Ninevah, God will hear us. Maybe he will not, and our lampstand has been removed forever. But I can assure you with perfect clarity, not even one of you who refuses the call to prayer and fasting is destined for the kingdom of heaven.

    “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.” (1 Cor 13:1-3)

    Join a church and love the people there.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      There are two parts to my attitude.

      1. There must be civil war within the churches. We must make common cause with anyone whose heart is in the right place and whose balls bequeath loyalty, even if their doctrine is incorrect. Solidarity in battle, dialectic in private.

      2. Right doctrine matters for right action, and barely more than that. Be absolutely unreasonable about doing the right thing. Give no ground and make no compromises. And, having, committed yourself to this, be extremely reasonable in application, in order to do as much of the right thing as is logistically possible. Do not spend your strength and treasure to win a single minor point only to find, at the last, that you lack the power to hold even that.

      • SirHamster says:

        I agreed with you, and Amen to all you added. Fasting and praying for a wayward church is an act of love.

        Loving the church means cleansing her iniquity. Gently if possible, with a scourge if not.

    • glosoli says:

      ‘If you are not actively loving *a* church, you do not love God’s church. Spare us the lip service.’

      Where in the bible are we instructed to love God’s church?
      I seem to recall Jesus instructed us to love God, and to love our neighbours.

      He tore down a shitty temple you may recall, and started a new church. We should try the same.

      We no longer have a church that Jehovah desires, very few churches instruct women to be silent, to cover their hair, and so few preach the law. Yet so many churches place women in leadership, even as pastors. Loving those places is satanic.

      • Aeoli Pera says:

        >Where in the bible are we instructed to love God’s church?

        “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.” (John 13:34).
        “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.” (John 15:12).
        “This I command you, that you love one another.” (John 15:17).

        • glosoli says:

          Where in the bible are we instructed to love God’s church?

          • Mycroft Jones says:

            Love our brothers, yes. Love the tares among the wheat? No. How do we recognize tares? They preach Jesus with their lips, but reject his teachings, and they ostracize and exclude those who try to follow his teachings.

      • SirHamster says:

        Where in the bible are we instructed to love God’s church?
        I seem to recall Jesus instructed us to love God, and to love our neighbours.

        Aeoli has already answered this. Jesus instructs ALL of his disciples to love each other. The church refers to ALL believers who follow Jesus. A church is any set of believers who follow Jesus.

        At the time of judgement, we will be judged by whether we loved Jesus’s brothers:

        “And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”

        Jesus’s brothers are those who do God’s will by believing in him.

        “Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mark 3:35)

        “For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” (John 6:40)

        You have not yet graduated from milk if you are going to challenge such basic concepts.

        We no longer have a church that Jehovah desires, very few churches instruct women to be silent, to cover their hair, and so few preach the law. Yet so many churches place women in leadership, even as pastors. Loving those places is satanic.

        “places”?

        You do not understand what a church *is*.

        Look at Paul’s instructions to the Romans (Rom 16:5a): “Greet also the church that meets at their house.” The church is not the house. It is the group of believers who meet in the house.

        Much as a nation is her people and not the dirt they live on, churches are people rather than the buildings the church happens to meet in.

        I have not told you to love a place. But you have a duty to God to love other believers. And your neighbors. And your enemies. And the tax collectors, prostitutes, and other sinners.

        Remember that heaven rejoices for each sinner that repents, rather than the 99 not needing repentance.

        • glosoli says:

          ‘And the tax collectors, prostitutes, and other sinners.’

          Oh please. I am supposed to try to be like God. I just listed those that God hate, and I hate them too. I am sure you saw Vox’s exposition of this point. I will forgive and love my personal enemies, but I will hate those who carry out abortions, who totally ignore God’s word whilst pretending to be Christians. I pray they will repent and be saved, that’s my love for them. I will not consort with them or support their evils.

          ‘Jesus instructs ALL of his disciples to love each other. The church refers to ALL believers who follow Jesus.’

          The vast majority of Churchians support homosexuality, support women’s rights to abortion, to speak and lead in Church, support uncontrolled single-mothers and bastardy. These people do not know Christ, do not know God.

          I know exactly what a church is, so don’t think you’re clever by picking up on one word out of place in my words. The churchians (people and places) deserve to suffer the same fate as the baal worshippers, for they worship false gods, not Jehovah. And one day, they will suffer that fate.

          • SirHamster says:

            I pray they will repent and be saved, that’s my love for them. I will not consort with them or support their evils.

            Going to the same church meeting with them is not supporting their evils.

            “And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

            But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.

            Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.””

            The vast majority of Churchians support homosexuality, support women’s rights to abortion, to speak and lead in Church, support uncontrolled single-mothers and bastardy. These people do not know Christ, do not know God.

            Since when have you been a member of the vast majority of Churchian churches, so as to judge them authoritatively on whether they know Christ or not? Don’t think I’ve forgotten your false statements about me. I do not hold them against you, but they show your lack of maturity.

            Did you spend any effort correcting and rebuking such a church to follow God? How old were you when you became a Christian? How long did God work on you before you repented? How much time have you spent calling churches to repent?

            The teacher of the law tried to justify himself by asking, “who is my neighbor?”

            First you were asking, “did God really ask me to love the church?” Now you’re saying “those nasty sinners can’t be part of the church!” You are trying to justify your lack of love.

            It’d be one thing if you went into a church and gave them enough tough love that they kicked you out … But if you had, you wouldn’t even be trying to split hairs with me. You wouldn’t feel the need to justify yourself to me – yet, here you are.

            I know exactly what a church is, so don’t think you’re clever by picking up on one word out of place in my words. The churchians (people and places) deserve to suffer the same fate as the baal worshippers, for they worship false gods, not Jehovah. And one day, they will suffer that fate.

            A mature Christian wouldn’t even make such a mistake. You are not a mature Christian. I am not trying to be clever, but pointing out elementary errors that you arrogantly brush off.

            Pride goes before a fall. “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

            You’re wrong. See below. You do God’s will by obeying His laws, His commands. When was the last time you heard that preached? Your statement above gives you away as a Churchian.

            Take it up with the Apostle John.

            “For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

            Did the thief on the cross enter Paradise? How much obedience did he practice to “qualify” to enter God’s kingdom?

            Your misuse of “Churchian” is a Satanic lie. Do not be deceived.

            • glosoli says:

              Tell me Sir Hamster, do you think unrepentant practising homosexuals should be pastors, leading churches and preaching?

              Do you think unrepentant practising homosexuals should be expelled from a church?

              Do you think men and women cohabiting and fornicating whilst not married should be expelled from churches, if they don’t repent?

              A simple yes or no answer to each question will suffice.

              If you don’t answer the questions, we will all know why.
              Thanks.

            • glosoli says:

              “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘LORD, LORD,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘LORD, LORD, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” (Matthew 7:21-23).

              I love Jesus, and I hate that we ignore His words and His laws.
              I hate Sir Hamster for spreading lies, and distorting the truth via carefully chosen scriptures. I seek to show the truth. He hates the truth.

            • SirHamster says:

              Tell me Sir Hamster [ … ] A simple yes or no answer to each question will suffice.

              If you don’t answer the questions, we will all know why.
              Thanks.

              You have ignored the questions I pose to you, and here you command me to answer you. Who has appointed you judge?

              Take heed of this warning from James: “There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you–who are you to judge your neighbor?”

              The stupidest thing about this, is that I am not a Churchian. I don’t have Churchian answers to your questions – but your self-righteousness blinds you from knowledge.

              I hate Sir Hamster for spreading lies, and distorting the truth via carefully chosen scriptures. I seek to show the truth. He hates the truth.

              You falsely accuse me, and thus imitate Satan, the Accuser. Repent, and rather imitate Jesus. Repent, and love those whom Jesus has died for and whom he loves.

        • glosoli says:

          ‘Jesus’s brothers are those who do God’s will by believing in him.’

          You’re wrong. See below. You do God’s will by obeying His laws, His commands. When was the last time you heard that preached? Your statement above gives you away as a Churchian.

          ‘Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
          (Joel 2:28-32; John 16:5-16; Acts 2:1-13; Acts 10:44-48; Acts 19:1-7)

          15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

          16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

          18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.’

          Churchians do not keep Jesus’ sayings, they distort them into some horrible spiritual marxist nonsense. All about love. Import the world.

  2. spigot says:

    Luciferianism is worship of man/the individual/the rational mind/ego/technology?

  3. Heaviside says:

    Detroit’s problems don’t have much to do with “liberals”.

  4. bicebicebice says:

    how to recreate hell on earth in ten simple steps:
    1. worship everything anything anyone as a god the more the better
    2. worship false gods, see1
    3. always take lords name in vain
    4. no sabbat no rest for the wicked
    5. never honor your parents
    6. murder kill destroy at whim and leisure
    7. commit adultery
    8. steal
    9. never tell the truth
    10. covet everything, ungodly like godly communism!

    the case for heaven and hell being real is very strong, just emulate it and see what happens. liberalism is just the nice way of saying spineless zero principled “scratch my shithole and ill scratch yours” psychopaty.

  5. glosoli says:

    ‘I challenged him to contact me when he’d purity-spiraled his way to a church containing no one but believers with sound doctrine, but not to look for models in the New Testament because the early churches were deeply flawed.’

    I take it you’re no fan of Martin Luther and the other reformation fighters then? Should they all have just stuck with the Roman Catholics, and paid their indulgence monies, said their hail Marys, and prayed for the RCs, as surely their hearts were in the right place, and they tried to do as much of the right thing as the Pope allowed?

    Fucked up thinking on show in this post brother.

    • Aeoli Pera says:

      “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 “For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?” (Matthew 5:44–46)

      Your poor judgment is becoming tedious. Why not rebuke me in private?

      “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.” (Matthew 18:15–17).

      • glosoli says:

        Becoming a leader in a Churchian Church and then co-leading scripture teaching with a female is nothing like loving your enemies. It’s sowing the seeds of destruction to everyone involved.

        Jesus did not go and help the money-changers count their profits, he whipped them out of the temple. I’m sure He loved them at the same time. Paul tells us not to associate with fornicators, yet you heap praise on them here.

        ‘Your poor judgment is becoming tedious. Why not rebuke me in private?’

        You were rebuked by 3 brothers in private last Saturday, but you continue to err.
        Two adults and one child told you straight.

        Your ears are blocked perhaps, as otherwise you misrepresent matters.

        • Brilliand says:

          “Two adults and one child”

          What.

          If I remember the Bible correctly, you only get to claim “3 brothers” if it was 3 adult men. “Two adults and one child” could easily just be one family. From your attitude toward women, I’m guessing they were all male… but still. Two men and one boy is two brothers and an echo.

      • glosoli says:

        Churchians are not your enemy, they’re God’s enemies.
        They do not persecute you, rather they attempt to offend God.
        God hates them. He does not love them.

        ’16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

        17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

        18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

        19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.’

        Those that love God and other men should not partake in wicked imaginations, not in sowing discord. You use discord for meetings.

        ‘Upon probing, he said he didn’t mean God’s church but modern churches with tares among the wheat.’ He is exactly correct to hate the modern churchian churches lie and sow discord. He does not need to pander to them, rather to start his own church, where believers will find God’s support will help them grow. Early New Testament churches weren’t allowed to have women speak or to have their hair uncovered. And if they strayed from proper doctrine, Paul didn’t join in with that out of love for them, he rebuked them, with public letters, out of love for them.

        Tedious perhaps, but Paul did a good job didn’t he.

      • SirHamster says:

        > Your poor judgment is becoming tedious. Why not rebuke me in private?

        Self-righteous pride requires public humbling.

        • glosoli says:

          Tell me Sir Hamster, do you agree that females should be pastors in churches?
          A simple yes or no answer will be fine.

          • SirHamster says:

            How many churches have you loved, glosoli? How much time was spent praying, and fasting, for those churches? Answer that and I will answer your question.

            Your Churchian litmus test sucks. The Churchian litmus test is: Is Jesus Lord?

            “Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.”

            • glosoli says:

              Got ya.

            • SirHamster says:

              Treating silence as an answer is foolish. I reject your claim of authority to demand answers from me.

              I reject your arrogance, and I implore that you repent of your self-righteousness and lack of love.

              “Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.”

            • glosoli says:

              Heh, so easy to catch out your sort of evil.

              No answer = ashamed of the answer.

              Darkness hates the light.

            • SirHamster says:

              > No answer = ashamed of the answer.

              Is that how you want me to interpret your silence to my questions?

              “Since when have you been a member of the vast majority of Churchian churches, so as to judge them authoritatively on whether they know Christ or not?”

              “Did you spend any effort correcting and rebuking such a church to follow God? How old were you when you became a Christian? How long did God work on you before you repented? How much time have you spent calling churches to repent?”

              “Did the thief on the cross enter Paradise? How much obedience did he practice to “qualify” to enter God’s kingdom?”

              – Not a member of any church. Vehement denial of duty to love the people in churches protects belief he has obeyed ALL of God’s commands, when he has actually neglected some.

              – Spent no effort correcting and rebuking a church, because he self-righteously judges they do not deserve to be saved.

              – New Christian who thinks the decades God used to lead him to salvation were deserved mercy, but everyone else needs to burn right now.

              – Does not think the thief on the cross entered Paradise, considers Jesus a liar for saying the thief would do so.

              But that would be uncharitable.

              How many individuals are you acting charitably towards, glosoli?

            • Aeoli Pera says:

              See, this is what I mean. I know glosoli has acted charitably offline and should not be forced to prove this and diminish his reward.

            • SirHamster says:

              > See, this is what I mean. I know glosoli has acted charitably offline and should not be forced to prove this and diminish his reward.

              I don’t think his answering the question or your vouching for him would diminish his reward, but I withdraw the question.

  6. SirHamster says:

    I’ll give this a shot.

    > Tell me Sir Hamster, do you agree that females should be pastors in churches?

    No.

    > Tell me Sir Hamster, do you think unrepentant practising homosexuals should be pastors, leading churches and preaching?

    No.

    > Do you think unrepentant practising homosexuals should be expelled from a church?

    Yes.

    > Do you think men and women cohabiting and fornicating whilst not married should be expelled from churches, if they don’t repent?

    Yes.

    glosoli, do you still want to call me a Churchian for these answers?

    • glosoli says:

      If you attend a church where any of those things are happening, you’re definitely a Churchian.

      Unless you stand up at every church meeting and condemn those practices as against God. You don’t do that do you? Nor do you leave that church. You stay and love the other Churchians.

      If you don’t observe the Sabbath, I’ll call you a Churchian.
      If you see women at church with their hair uncovered, and you stay at that church without challenging them, you’re a Churchian.
      If you disapprove of polygamy, I’ll call you a Churchian.
      If you’re a supporter of Kings, or modern governments, or the US constitution, or democracy, I’ll call you a Churchian.

      If you continue to misinterpret scripture to suit your agenda, I’ll call you a Churchian.
      If you think that belief in Christ alone is enough to secure your place in Heaven, I’ll call you a Churchian.

      If you believe that God only loves and doesn’t hate, and that we should do the same, I’ll call you a Churchian.

      Based on the cumulative comments and views you’ve expressed here, you’re the epitome of a modern hypocritical Churchian.

      • Aeoli Pera says:

        Hamster, this is a good opportunity to practice what we are preaching about.

        • SirHamster says:

          The civil war?

          I make no judgement, and trust that God extends that same charity. I challenge the ideas and the words and think the abrasion will clarify and sharpen.

          This is probably enough responses on my part for this post, and for the day.

  7. SirHamster says:

    If you attend a church where any of those things are happening, you’re definitely a Churchian.

    Unless you stand up at every church meeting and condemn those practices as against God. You don’t do that do you? Nor do you leave that church. You stay and love the other Churchians.

    I do not have a female pastor. There are no homosexuals in my church leadership. There are no open homosexuals in my church’s membership. There are no cohabiting, fornicating church members, either.

    You have accused my church of being Churchians. Some of these church members are young high school Christians who are developing in their faith. I had the pleasure of spending a weekend with them and seeing them grow in their understanding of God, and caring for each other.

    You do not know me, and have never been to my church. You do not know these young believers enough to judge their faith. Yet you have judged them with your use of the Churchian label. It doesn’t matter to me what you think about me, but how you are treating me is spilling over to how you treat other Christians. Do you have no love for these little ones?

    If you don’t observe the Sabbath, I’ll call you a Churchian.
    If you see women at church with their hair uncovered, and you stay at that church without challenging them, you’re a Churchian.
    If you disapprove of polygamy, I’ll call you a Churchian.
    If you’re a supporter of Kings, or modern governments, or the US constitution, or democracy, I’ll call you a Churchian.

    If you continue to misinterpret scripture to suit your agenda, I’ll call you a Churchian.
    If you think that belief in Christ alone is enough to secure your place in Heaven, I’ll call you a Churchian.

    If you believe that God only loves and doesn’t hate, and that we should do the same, I’ll call you a Churchian.

    With your list, just about every member of any church is a Churchian, and you believe they are hated by God, and therefore you too must hate them.

    That is a very long list of people to hate. Who is left for you to love?

    I love Jesus, and I hate that we ignore His words and His laws.

    You testify that you are part of the group who ignores Jesus’s words and His laws, are you not a Churchian?

    • Mycroft Jones says:

      > You testify that you are part of the group who ignores Jesus’s words and His laws, are you not a Churchian?

      glosoli was including YOU in that “we”, Hamster.

      As for who is there left to love? Everyone who earnestly seeks the Kingdom of God, with a contrite and sincere heart. The Gospel cannot be erased by the false churchians, though they have slaughtered the saints by the millions.

      • SirHamster says:

        @Mycroft

        > glosoli was including YOU in that “we”, Hamster.

        That’s not a gotcha. He’s repeatedly called me Churchian, but I know what the difference between Churchian and Christian is. I have skin in the game caring for the Christians around me, and his accusation made in ignorance has no weight.

        The flip side of that is that every man is assumed to be authoritative on his own state; if glosoli says he is part of the group that ignores Jesus’s words and His laws, then one ought to take him at his word; the alternative being to call him a liar misrepresenting himself, which would also be “ignoring Jesus’s words”.

        Why do I need to spell this out for you?

        > As for who is there left to love?

        If glosoli still loves himself even though he himself falls under the Churchian standard he uses, then the command to love others as he loves himself has an obvious extrapolation.

        > The Gospel cannot be erased by the false churchians, though they have slaughtered the saints by the millions.

        The Churchians being lambasted here are guilty of disobedience and heresy, not murder.

        • Aeoli Pera says:

          Mycroft, I have to agree that it’s not obvious that the term Churchian, in common usage, implies co-conspiracy in mass murder. You will have to unpack that.

          • Mycroft Jones says:

            Churchians are ok with gay marriage. Churchians are ok with abortion. But as for the slaughter of adults, look at the history of Catholic and Orthodox repression; read up Infogalactic on the “Subbotniks” in Russia. The Inquisition and Counter-Reformation. Those were all Churchian (false Christian) slaughters of people who were trying to follow the Word.

            • Aeoli Pera says:

              There’s some truth in your accusation about abortion, although it unfairly blames a subset for the sins of the set, but the other accusations are an unreasonable expansion of the definition of “churchian”. So your original assertion was incorrect.

            • glosoli says:

              It’s a very sound definition of people who were Churchian (fake Christians).

              Churchians deciding what is and isn’t Churchian is very…Churchian, wouldn’t you say?

              How about: if it ain’t in the bible, it’s Churchian, we can all agree on that one I would hope.

        • glosoli says:

          I did not mean I am Churchian, as I am not.

          As usual you strain at a gnat (my careless typing), ignoring the camel.

          ‘We’ means humanity, and modern Christians, like yourself and Aeoli, who pick and choose from scripture, and misinterpret as a result, often led by those deliberately out to deceive.

          • Aeoli Pera says:

            In this case, am I led by someone deliberately out to deceive?

            • glosoli says:

              If they want you to co-lead teaching scripture with a woman, it’s a good bet they are intentionally deceiving you. Although you know it’s BS too, so it’s not really deception.
              I don’t know what to call it, except totally wrong.

          • SirHamster says:

            @glosoli

            Do you mean to say, “I love Jesus, and I hate that you all ignore His words and His laws”?

            Your choice of words matters, in terms of clear communication. It does not actually matter to me, personally. I hope you will be encouraged by my response to you below.

            • glosoli says:

              ‘I love Jesus, and I hate that the world ignore His words and His laws.’

              Thank you for your words of encouragement.

    • glosoli says:

      Hamster: always straining gnats, ignoring camels.

      • SirHamster says:

        @glosoli

        You have admirable zeal and passion. I praise God that you are a new believer who has responded to the Gospel of God’s salvation through Jesus Christ.

        As you conform to the model of Jesus Christ, you will have great impact on the lives of those around you, being Salt and Light to a world that desperately needs both.

        You spoke of starting a church of like-minded believers. Whether you love a church of your own, or love a pre-existing church filled with Churchians in need of repentance, you will fulfill the command to love your brothers in Christ and so do well.

        None of the words I speak to you are judgements. I cannot judge you, and the One who calls you has justified you completely. You are a vessel of God’s Grace and Mercy. Hold onto what you have found, and add on more.

        the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

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